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First slip joint...liners or linerless?
- Thread starter waterford
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All the traditional slip joint pocketknives I own (there are a fair number) have liners - some are brass, some steel, and some stainless steel - but they are lined, which is the typical construction of a traditional PK. OH
Ps A picture is worth a thousand words.
Ps A picture is worth a thousand words.
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With liners is more popular but go with what you want. It'll be your custom knife afterall. That said,
Without liners pros - less weight, thinner, pretty much has to be a shadow pattern, might cost less.
Without liners cons - maybe not as strong (you shouldn't be prying with it anyway, cutting should be just fine), might be too thin, no bolsters.
Here's my only custom without liners. A Gene Wiseman Ultralight Front Pocket in Jade/Ghost Green G10.
Without liners pros - less weight, thinner, pretty much has to be a shadow pattern, might cost less.
Without liners cons - maybe not as strong (you shouldn't be prying with it anyway, cutting should be just fine), might be too thin, no bolsters.
Here's my only custom without liners. A Gene Wiseman Ultralight Front Pocket in Jade/Ghost Green G10.
And this will be your first slipjoint? You don't mess around.
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Look out Alistair Phillips - goes as Cubane on the sites. Makes a lovely linerless slipjoint.
http://knives.mutantdiscovery.com/availablefolders.html
You might look at the Spyderco Urban even
Not many around on the 'new' market, but I'm sure a 'wanted' would show one, and they are talking of remaking it, though in different materials
http://knives.mutantdiscovery.com/availablefolders.html
You might look at the Spyderco Urban even
Not many around on the 'new' market, but I'm sure a 'wanted' would show one, and they are talking of remaking it, though in different materialsFrom what I have read, the composite materials custom makers use in slip joint handles are plenty strong without liners. I believe it is a matter of preference and cost. I would get quotes for the knife with and without liners.
On the other hand, I do not recall seeing bone, wood, stag, horn or any other materials in linerless slip joints.
On the other hand, I do not recall seeing bone, wood, stag, horn or any other materials in linerless slip joints.
Others have mentioned the pros and cons of each, go with which one you think you enjoy the best. Personally I probably go linerless for EDC use as I like having a knife I forget I am carrying till I need it. Though if I plan on using it a lot, rather take one with liners as I feel better having the wider grip and it will more than likely be a bit more sturdy.
ISKski
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I do not like linerless knives.
Too light and narrow.
I recently picked up a knife that has titanium liners and bolsters and it is noticeably lighter than steel - yet it still has that handle heavy feeling that I like.
Maybe you could find someone willing to work with titanium in a slip joint, its not too common...
Composite materials like G10, Carbon Fiber, and Micarta, are plenty strong and do not require liners to support them - while natural materials will need a liner. That being said, you can also use g10 as liner...
Steven65's photo
Too light and narrow.
I recently picked up a knife that has titanium liners and bolsters and it is noticeably lighter than steel - yet it still has that handle heavy feeling that I like.
Maybe you could find someone willing to work with titanium in a slip joint, its not too common...
Composite materials like G10, Carbon Fiber, and Micarta, are plenty strong and do not require liners to support them - while natural materials will need a liner. That being said, you can also use g10 as liner...
Steven65's photo
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I think the linerless knives are a cool use of modern materials. Obviously, these aren't the traditional construction, but that's OK. I think of my knives with brass or nickel silver liners, brass or nickel silver bolsters, carbon steel blades, and natural materials for the covers as faithful to the older production knives. Many modern customs use stainless steel liners, often milled for relief and sometimes with integral bolsters. This is also a departure from the older style of construction, but I think it is a nice use of modern materials and equipment to update traditional patterns.
The only traditional pattern knife I have with linerless construction is one of the AG Russell 3" lock backs in carbon fiber. It is great to be able to toss it in my pocket with my keys and not even notice it. It is pretty flat, but there is no reason that in a custom you couldn't have thicker material (carbon fiber, G10, Micarta, etc.) used and then made into a nice rounded profile.
The only traditional pattern knife I have with linerless construction is one of the AG Russell 3" lock backs in carbon fiber. It is great to be able to toss it in my pocket with my keys and not even notice it. It is pretty flat, but there is no reason that in a custom you couldn't have thicker material (carbon fiber, G10, Micarta, etc.) used and then made into a nice rounded profile.
I'm on the fence about the liner issue. If I stick with tradition, then there must be liners. But
there are traditional knives that have no liners because the handle is everything. The old Mercator K55 and Douk-Douk come to mind. Of course, the handles are metal, but way back when these knives were brought out, the modern composites didn't exist. But these knives developed a reputation as rugged work knives that can be counted on. I've used both the Mercator and Douk-ouk, and I will admit to once in a while abusing them in the belief that they were cheap to replace if they broke, thus making them more expendable than the copy scout knife dad gave me. The Mercator was all of .99 cents at the surplus store in Silver Spring Maryland back then.
With modern material, I think you could have a very light weight pocket knife with no liners, yet still have more than adequate strength for day to day use as a cutting tool. Certainly Case thought all this out before they came out with the plastic handle peanuts and trappers that seem weightless in the pocket. Light weight is good. One of the most well known light weight knife on the market is just zytel handle and blade. The Gerber LST made knife news in 1980 when Pete Gerber came out with it. A flat little knife that you could forget was in your pocket until you needed a sharp edge. Some of the guys I worked with that were non knife people carried those LST's, and they beat the liven' snot outa them. Never saw one break. The non traditional looks seem ugly to me, but if that same construction was put into a light weight sodbusterish knife like that Gene Wiseman ultralight, and it kept to a very traditional profile and slip joint action, I think I could like it. Maybe even like it a lot. Or the Case models with the zytel handles. They sure are traditional.
If I were going custom, with modern materials, I think I may go all the way with no liners.
With modern material, I think you could have a very light weight pocket knife with no liners, yet still have more than adequate strength for day to day use as a cutting tool. Certainly Case thought all this out before they came out with the plastic handle peanuts and trappers that seem weightless in the pocket. Light weight is good. One of the most well known light weight knife on the market is just zytel handle and blade. The Gerber LST made knife news in 1980 when Pete Gerber came out with it. A flat little knife that you could forget was in your pocket until you needed a sharp edge. Some of the guys I worked with that were non knife people carried those LST's, and they beat the liven' snot outa them. Never saw one break. The non traditional looks seem ugly to me, but if that same construction was put into a light weight sodbusterish knife like that Gene Wiseman ultralight, and it kept to a very traditional profile and slip joint action, I think I could like it. Maybe even like it a lot. Or the Case models with the zytel handles. They sure are traditional.
If I were going custom, with modern materials, I think I may go all the way with no liners.
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While I think Carl's well post is well thought out, I would respectfully disagree with the conclusion.
With the size of the traditional patterns, weight is not a concern that is in the front of my decision making. In a custom knife, I am interested in how the artist practices his craft. The liners, add and opportunity to demonstrate precision, fit, and finish. Additionally, depending on materials, there may be an opportunity for my creativity.
Were I to order a custon, it would be with a liner and perhaps a meaningful notation engraved inside. It would have a story that reflected my thoughts and hopes prior to its creation.
Have fun with the process no matter what you choose!
With the size of the traditional patterns, weight is not a concern that is in the front of my decision making. In a custom knife, I am interested in how the artist practices his craft. The liners, add and opportunity to demonstrate precision, fit, and finish. Additionally, depending on materials, there may be an opportunity for my creativity.
Were I to order a custon, it would be with a liner and perhaps a meaningful notation engraved inside. It would have a story that reflected my thoughts and hopes prior to its creation.
Have fun with the process no matter what you choose!