Fisk Micro Show

I witnessed Lin's test. Lin's blade cut and cut. He did much more than was required in the cutting portion of the test and it would still shave. In the bend test his knife did not crack until it was almost 90 degrees bent. The grain structure where it cracked was nice and tight like it should be in a well forged blade. I'm sure that Lin will pass in the Spring when he retakes the test. Jim Treacy
 
You wouldn't ordinarily do it, but if you can do it, it shows that you know what you are doing.
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That's true Gabe. Exactly. The fact that it cracked too far means that I was not in as much control as I should have been. A test of this nature forces a maker to study the properties of the steels and even go beyond that and apply it to different areas of the blade. Believe me, I have relived the drawing back proceedure many times in the last two days. I actually believe I can go to my shop and successfully bend another right now, but it's best this way.
Making a damascus blade with all of the characteristics to pass such a test requires an understanding of several things all involved in one peice of steel. Sometimes it takes failure for the maker to learn. I think it's working in my case.

Sheathmaker, your question is a good one. (Why do the bending?) Don answered it as good as I could have. True control of this feature of a test knife would require that one bit of expertise that just might make a big difference for the true Custom knife.

By the way, thanks for the nice words guys, Lin
 
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the cutting and bending aspects of the ABS test have direct real-world relevance related to 'differential heat treating' which results in a relatively harder edge for better cutting and less need for sharpening in the field, while the relatively softer spine translates into better blade durability (meaning resistance to catastrophic blade failure during hard use).

It is also my understanding that during the bend test it is OK if the edge (which is harder) cracks a little at the bend. This would be expected given the nature of differential heat treatment.

Assuming the above is true, there is no doubt that this type of testing is a good thing for everyone, makers to collectors and everybody in between.

My additional understanding is that many people don't pass this part of the test first time around. Quality control specialists in industry (the ones oriented towards CQI or continuous qulity improvement) would insist this is also a good thing for everybody concerned. MD's who want to become 'board certified' face a similar hurdle since (in my specialty at least) there is a 45% failure rate for first timers, many of whom are already good doctors. It should not be easy to obtain the highest level of certification in one's specialty, whether medicine or knife-making.

Lin Rhea, as anyone who knows him (even just a little, as I do), will not be surprised by his approach to this bump in the road as evidenced by his initiating this thread - the man has integrity! The knife world needs more folks like you, Lin!
 
Even though Lin was obviously disappointed he handled the situation just as he would have if his blade would not have cracked; with class, composure and a positive attitude.

It was amazing that his blade cut through 14) 2X4s 7) 1" hemp rope and was still hair shaving sharp. :thumbup::thumbup:

It wasn't easy testing with all those people watching. I think Lin was tested in more than one way, and IMO he passed the most important one with flying colors.
 
Yes, I give great kudos to Lin for how he has handled this hurdle. I'm sure that when he tests again, he will clear it as admirably as he handled the setback... chin high and proud in the effort.
 
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the cutting and bending aspects of the ABS test have direct real-world relevance related to 'differential heat treating' which results in a relatively harder edge for better cutting and less need for sharpening in the field, while the relatively softer spine translates into better blade durability (meaning resistance to catastrophic blade failure during hard use).
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Buddy, You are correct, to a degree. However there is more to it and I will try to explain my point.

I'll use my test knife as an example. Even though it failed the test, the spine was softer than the cutting edge. Just not soft enough to keep it from cracking at all. (The edge cracked first in the bend indicating it was harder)The difference in degree of hardness , or extremes, need to be greater in such a knife, whereas most knives would be quite durable with what would be considered a normal difference of hardness between the spine and cutting edge. This added degree of control is what the bend test reveals.

I wont speak for Don, but I believe he alluded to this and I feel the same. I would rather USE a knife that has not had the spine drawn back that far. This seems to "deaden" the blade for me. So, in my opinion, the radical difference of degree of hardness is not desirable on most using knives. But, some degree of difference is desirable and necessary for a good knife.

I certainly believe the concept of "Custom Knives" requires that we include the heat treat and related qualities of which we as makers have control. So some are different than others. The test knife blade is near the end of "the scale". It will not do the things we ask unless the maker makes the steel go to opposite extremes all in one blade.
Lin
 
lwrhea said:
Buddy, You are correct, to a degree. However there is more to it and I will try to explain my point.

I'll use my test knife as an example. Even though it failed the test, the spine was softer than the cutting edge. Just not soft enough to keep it from cracking at all. (The edge cracked first in the bend indicating it was harder)The difference in degree of hardness , or extremes, need to be greater in such a knife, whereas most knives would be quite durable with what would be considered a normal difference of hardness between the spine and cutting edge. This added degree of control is what the bend test reveals.

I wont speak for Don, but I believe he alluded to this and I feel the same. I would rather USE a knife that has not had the spine drawn back that far. This seems to "deaden" the blade for me. So, in my opinion, the radical difference of degree of hardness is not desirable on most using knives. But, some degree of difference is desirable and necessary for a good knife.

I certainly believe the concept of "Custom Knives" requires that we include the heat treat and related qualities of which we as makers have control. So some are different than others. The test knife blade is near the end of "the scale". It will not do the things we ask unless the maker makes the steel go to opposite extremes all in one blade.
Lin
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so lin.....are u saying....the bend test just demonstrates that you can control the heat treat in a certain way and have total control over the steel......and a working knife in your opinion doesn't necessarily benefit from te same hardening but you can control those aspects of heat treating depending on what the knife's purpose is......thanks for making it clear.....ryan
 
Ryan,
Yes. Not all knives have the same purpose. So the maker needs to have a good understanding of the steel so he can impart the proper qualities to the blade according to it's use.
Lin
 
Lin, I'm sorry to hear about the bump in the road, but very glad to see you looking ahead with determination and handling this so well.

L6 has a tendency to air harden, but a differential temper will help out an awful lot to help.

I'm excited to see your post after you pass the next time around Lin! :thumbup::)
 
Lin, look on the bright side, you are a shoo-in for the fit and finish test. As we both know, thats the HARD part. Sorry about the bad news, but look what you have accomplished in such a short time.
 
I just have to say thank you for all the support. This could have been a real hard lick, but you guys have really turned it around for me. It's just making me want to do that much more! I really appreciate this guys. :)
Lin
 
Lin: Like I told you at the show, doing the test in front of so many people showed real courage. Keep up the good work:thumbup::thumbup:
 
lwrhea said:
I wont speak for Don, but I believe he alluded to this and I feel the same. I would rather USE a knife that has not had the spine drawn back that far. This seems to "deaden" the blade for me. So, in my opinion, the radical difference of degree of hardness is not desirable on most using knives. But, some degree of difference is desirable and necessary for a good knife. Lin
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I agree with that 100%.

Roger
 
Lin,

You have publicly put your knives through some real testing by your participation in cutting competitions. Having bent a lot of knives myself and competed in several competitions I know the competition route will teach you a lot more about steel properties than a simple bend. I understand the ABS tests and why they require the bend but in the real world I would look to a cutting competition participant for a hard working knife.

I'm glad to hear the show was a big success for you with a sell out.

Daniel
 
lwrhea said:
Kieth, I dont mean for it to sound like it's over. It's not. I'll be pacing the floor to take it again in the alloted time. You better believe it! :) Lin
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I never for a minute thought that you wouldn't be taking the test again as soon as possible.
 
Lin, I too am sorry for your advancement delay but this could actually be one of the best things that could happen. It sounds like you arent losing orders over it.

Your knife went way above the expected performance in the cutting tests by the sound of it.

My first thought is that the differential heat treating line is slightly high on the blade and was above the vise jaws when clamped in for the bending tests. My blade cracked also but only on the hardened edge. It doesnt have the L6 though. A bold move on your part. "No Guts No Glory" they say. You will make it big buddy in 08.

My take on the bending test is this: A bent blade can be straightened back out and reused but a broken blade is nearly useless.
 
Lin, you are one fine maker, and after talking with you on several occasions, you are one fine gentleman also.

Hope to see you at Batson's in the Spring.

Robert
 
lwrhea said:
Sometimes it takes failure for the maker to learn.
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To take this a little further, IMO, sometimes it takes failure to advance to the next level. That is not a bad thing, as so many people here have already said. I applaud (vigourously) your positive attitude and determination to take on this challenge. As I see it, for you, it is not "just" about getting your MS stamp, but obviously about becoming the best you can be. Thanks for posting, Lin. :thumbup:
 
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