Fit & Finish, High Dollar Folders, observations from Knife Show in Phoenix

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Akapennypincher

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Sep 12, 2013
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Went over to the Shriners Auditurium last weekend for the big knife show. The one thing that made me scratch my head was some out of this world knives on display, and for sale. But I was surprised to see many folders for sale in the $500.00+ Price Range that when you looked inside were the works or where the Blade stores in the closed position. I say gouge, or really bad tool marks. Yes I know this does not effect the operation, but to me it is sloppy workmenship in IHO.

Like I said I was very surprised, but maybe this is what some craftsmen call their best work. BTW the show was good, and it was fun seeing some people talent that to me is a functional art form.
 
The more hands-on a knife is, the more likely you will see small imperfections that were the results of hand making, fitting and finishing.

I have an Olamic Wayfarer and if I really look for imperfections, they're there. The wayfarer isn't a custom, but it has a lot of hand finishing that goes into it.

These errors occurred from human error, and they don't affect the function of the knife at all. To me, it's kinda cool seeing that stuff. It tells me that the knife truly was hand finished/fit/made, whatever...
 
Blues Bender said:
The more hands-on a knife is, the more likely you will see small imperfections that were the results of hand making, fitting and finishing.

I have an Olamic Wayfarer and if I really look for imperfections, they're there. The wayfarer isn't a custom, but it has a lot of hand finishing that goes into it.

These errors occurred from human error, and they don't affect the function of the knife at all. To me, it's kinda cool seeing that stuff. It tells me that the knife truly was hand finished/fit/made, whatever...
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IMO a hand finished knife should be of better F&F then a manufactured piece that's half to 1/4 the price. Otherwise, what in the heck is the point of having it hand finished and paying the higher price?

My SAK and my Mora have as good or better F&F then the customs I've bought and for the most part, they cut better too. OP...the knife industry is largely BS.
 
Shotgun said:
IMO a hand finished knife should be of better F&F then a manufactured piece that's half to 1/4 the price. Otherwise, what in the heck is the point of having it hand finished and paying the higher price?

My SAK and my Mora have as good or better F&F then the customs I've bought and for the most part, they cut better too. OP...the knife industry is largely BS.
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You obviously don't understand what goes into making a knife. Have you ever made something by hand? Probably not with they way you presented your point. Hand made items won't be perfect, nothing is. And if you think you've made something that is perfect, you fail to see what imperfections truly are.

If a sak and mora is all you need, then enjoy. That just leaves more "BS" knives for me!
 
Shotgun said:
IMO a hand finished knife should be of better F&F then a manufactured piece that's half to 1/4 the price. Otherwise, what in the heck is the point of having it hand finished and paying the higher price?

My SAK and my Mora have as good or better F&F then the customs I've bought and for the most part, they cut better too. OP...the knife industry is largely BS.
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Your point could have been made in a less close-minded way. Enjoy your SAK/Moras.
 
Shotgun said:
IMO a hand finished knife should be of better F&F then a manufactured piece that's half to 1/4 the price. Otherwise, what in the heck is the point of having it hand finished and paying the higher price?

My SAK and my Mora have as good or better F&F then the customs I've bought and for the most part, they cut better too. OP...the knife industry is largely BS.
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You mean that a human that is prone to error by design is supposed to do better than a precision computer controlled machine? Now that is completely unrealistic in all kinds of ways. If a knife that is hand made costs say, $250 and it takes 30 hours to make, that knife make his earning a whopping $8.33 per hour. Come on now....

Mora Knives as well as SAK are made by the hundreds if not thousands per day. By very complex machines to get the grinds and fit identical, despite the hand fitting that is basically an assembly line. Not very well thought out IMO to say the least.
 
Every time I've dived into a custom, I've come out with a greater appreciation for production knives - particularly Zero Tolerance and Spyderco.

I've purchased two customs from some of the more prominent and active custom makers on this forum (who will go unnamed, even if you PM me) and was unimpressed. I've owned Will Moons, Elishiwitzes, Tighes, and many more - every time, they either just matched or fell short of the quality of my 0801 and were of such value that I could never justify using them.

I think I'm far too practical about my knives to own customs. I can appreciate the craftsmanship and all, but I always find them ill-fitting as a tool. It's like buying an Enzo to commute to work - Yeah, it's really fancy, but you'll get the same or better service from a regular production, and be able to fix or replace it with relative ease.
 
You know making excuses for slopy work is not what this country the USA was all about years ago. When I did freelance News photography I knew if raw exposed film was sent to a photo editor, they alway choose the best, sharpest images to illistrate the story I shot for them.

When I had the luxury of shooting, processing, and last editing the images I shot on assignment. I only sent what was my best images it for publication. They were in focus, exposed properly, and last the junk was editied out.

I honestly did not understand when a craftsmen charging $500.00 per knife would not pay morer attention to the overall product put out for sale. I am sure deetail work to make their work stand out as perfect as could be would be accomplished in less than an hour per knife.

Having actually worked as a machinest for a few year after millitary service. I know that precession finish work is possible with metal parts with not a whole lot of effort.

Customer Knife Makers for the most part sign, or put some sort of logo on their work, identifying who made it. Honestly I would be asshame to put my Logo, or Signature on sloppy work, I charged big money for. But then that is what make me who I am.
 
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Very handmade.

[video=youtube;I6iRPfy1VmY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6iRPfy1VmY[/video]
 
I see it more like a Ferrari vs. a Camry thing. Yes, a Camry costs far less, will still do the same things more reliably and with better efficiency, but the Ferrari is still a Ferrari.

Ferraris are maintenance hogs and often have lots of issues. Yet they still sell like crazy purely because they are what they are.

A $20 SAK or a $30 Mora will do 98% of the things you need a knife to do. Even a $200 Zero Tolerance isn't really necessary. But what fun would the world be if there were only Camrys to drive?
 
Who said production knives were finished more thoroughly and/or better than custom knives? I have not yet seen nor experienced this. What kind of custom knives are we talking about here? Knives from established and well-known makers or up-and-comers who purchased their CNC machine just a few years ago?
 
Blues Bender said:
You obviously don't understand what goes into making a knife. Have you ever made something by hand? Probably not with they way you presented your point. Hand made items won't be perfect, nothing is. And if you think you've made something that is perfect, you fail to see what imperfections truly are.

If a sak and mora is all you need, then enjoy. That just leaves more "BS" knives for me!
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I didn't say it should be perfect. Just worth the price I'm paying. Only one custom knife I've bought was worth buying and the fit and finish isn't all that stellar. Actually the worst out of all my customs. However, I kept it because it cost as much as a production knife AND it did it's job well. Which is to cut things.
Quiet said:
Your point could have been made in a less close-minded way. Enjoy your SAK/Moras.
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Most of the things we value as consumers is largely BS. It's how humans work. It's not being closed minded. It's being grounded in reality. I didn't invent the term "Keeping up with the Jones'."
RevDevil said:
You mean that a human that is prone to error by design is supposed to do better than a precision computer controlled machine? Now that is completely unrealistic in all kinds of ways. If a knife that is hand made costs say, $250 and it takes 30 hours to make, that knife make his earning a whopping $8.33 per hour. Come on now....

Mora Knives as well as SAK are made by the hundreds if not thousands per day. By very complex machines to get the grinds and fit identical, despite the hand fitting that is basically an assembly line. Not very well thought out IMO to say the least.
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So I should buy a knife that's more expensive, does the job as good(being generous here IMO)as a production knife, AND has worse F&F for what reason? To prop up a poor business model or just for the "privilege" of saying my knife was handmade? :confused:
 
I'm sorry I missed that Shrinners show, had to work. I'm been collecting production knives, mainly Benchmades, Kershaw, Zero Tolerance, Spyderco, and Boker for about six years now. I started picking up some mid-techs about six months ago. Many of my production knives are as well made as my mid-techs, but the mid-techs I've chosen are all special and very well made. There is a lot of junk out there, and some of it is very expensive. I've noticed, especially in say the last two years that production knives are getting expensive themselves. This is a fantastic hobby!
 
Shotgun said:
I didn't say it should be perfect. Just worth the price I'm paying. Only one custom knife I've bought was worth buying and the fit and finish isn't all that stellar. Actually the worst out of all my customs. However, I kept it because it cost as much as a production knife AND it did it's job well. Which is to cut things.

Most of the things we value as consumers is largely BS. It's how humans work. It's not being closed minded. It's being grounded in reality. I didn't invent the term "Keeping up with the Jones'."


So I should buy a knife that's more expensive, does the job as good(being generous here IMO)as a production knife, AND has worse F&F for what reason? To prop up a poor business model or just for the "privilege" of saying my knife was handmade? :confused:
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What makers in particular produced your customs which have worse than F&F than production knives? As it stands now I think you are being unfair to a lot of amazing makers out there who make sure everything is thoroughly finished. What about people like Rogers, Harkins and Wilson who contour, polish and/or jewel everything even the internals that you don't see unless you remove screws and scales?

My Terzuola has F&F details that are amazing even by today's standards; as just one example of many, all the body screws were cut to be the exact same size, polished on both ends and then set to be perfectly flush with the scales. That knife made by hand in the 90s has all the F&F details that modern production knives achieve by way of machinery and numerical control equipment. Same goes with my Emerson. My Emerson has all hand shaped micarta, bolsters and hand filed grooves and everything's even and matches up completely just as I would expect from a high quality production knife. Its lockface and liners are completely finished as well. If you own knives made by makers who in 2010 and beyond can't make knives with better F&F than machine produced productions, please let us know so we can avoid those makers.
 
Lost Cosmonaut said:
I see it more like a Ferrari vs. a Camry thing. Yes, a Camry costs far less, will still do the same things more reliably and with better efficiency, but the Ferrari is still a Ferrari.

Ferraris are maintenance hogs and often have lots of issues. Yet they still sell like crazy purely because they are what they are.

A $20 SAK or a $30 Mora will do 98% of the things you need a knife to do. Even a $200 Zero Tolerance isn't really necessary. But what fun would the world be if there were only Camrys to drive?
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I get your point but if I may, I think that analogy is a bit off from what the OP is saying. Ferari's over Camry each time when you're out on the road having fun but if you just need to car to run errands(which is what the moras and the saks are for in a manner of speaking), then a Ferari might not be better than a Hyundai.
 
Shotgun said:
So I should buy a knife that's more expensive, does the job as good(being generous here IMO)as a production knife, AND has worse F&F for what reason? To prop up a poor business model or just for the "privilege" of saying my knife was handmade? :confused:
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Nope, I never said that. Now you are putting words in my mouth. I was simply attempting to clarify your statement. You painted things with a pretty broad brush there and neglected quite a lot of aspects and outright dismissed them by not even taking them into account. You sir, can buy whatever you like with your money. But the people that actually spend their time making knives I would imagine would strongly disagree with your view point on many levels.

By your logic someone should simply "price match" a handmade item that may or may not have the same materials and "workmanship" as a piece that is made by automated processes and produced in runs of hundreds per hour (rough estimate there). That s what is great about the hobby, you buy what you like. But, we have to be a little bit careful and considerate not to insult an entire community in the process, but then again hey, you can have whatever opinion you want.
 
Well I just looked at the Swiss Army Demonistration Video, one thing I noticed was all the part were finished very well before being put into the final knife. But having owned some other products made by the Swiss, they are very focuses about make the best of everything they manufacture.
 
Imperfections, as well as more obvious variations, make customs unique. Sort of the point I thought. To have a one off knife rather than one of 10k productions folders that are by design exactly the same.

If you don't get it and don't value it more than a less expensive production model then don't buy one. Most "good" custom makers have waiting lists that are months behind, less competition for the rest of us.
 
singularity35 said:
I get your point but if I may, I think that analogy is a bit off from what the OP is saying. Ferari's over Camry each time when you're out on the road having fun but if you just need to car to run errands(which is what the moras and the saks are for in a manner of speaking), then a Ferari might not be better than a Hyundai.
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The Ferrari analogy is close. However, most well built customs don't need constant tuning and tweaking like a modern super car. Since they are all pretty much have the same functionality. They can pretty much do the same things. It's just that some guys don't want to ruin the collect-ability, or value by using a custom. My advice to all those who find customs a waste is to go to one of the larger knife shows and handle a Rexford, Southard, Rogers, Terzoula, or any one of the better makers out there. Then talk to me about a lack of F&F.

If you can't get to one the best thing i can say about why buy custom is this, "If you don't get it. Don't get it, and please don't belittle those of us that do".
 
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