Fit & Finish, High Dollar Folders, observations from Knife Show in Phoenix

[NorthernSouthpaw]

Imperfections, as well as more obvious variations, make customs unique. Sort of the point I thought. To have a one off knife rather than one of 10k productions folders that are by design exactly the same.

If you don't get it and don't value it more than a less expensive production model then don't buy one. Most "good" custom makers have waiting lists that are months behind, less competition for the rest of us.

Months? Try years. That is, if you can even get on their books.

 

[155440]

Imperfections, as well as more obvious variations, make customs unique. Sort of the point I thought. To have a one off knife rather than one of 10k productions folders that are by design exactly the same.

If you don't get it and don't value it more than a less expensive production model then don't buy one. Most "good" custom makers have waiting lists that are months behind, less competition for the rest of us.

That was part of the allure for me, to have something created to the specifications I wanted but room left for the maker to make it his own as well.

 

[ron_m80]

The buyer is the only one who does, or does not perceive the value. The maker is likely offering you their price on the work.

There are several threads on what is "handmade", "custom", or/ and "handmade custom". They make for good reading. There were at least a couple great ones in the "custom and handmade knives" sub-forum. They are good reading.

This isn't a new situation or circumstance. It has been like this for many many years. Likely since the invention of "snake oil all-cure" have people sold things for more than their actual value.

 

[PURPLEDC]

Trust me its not just you. I have noticed a drop in attention to detail. Not just in customs but also in customs. The veterans are still pumping out stellar knives. But some new guys are really creating products that only have superficial beauty. A dealer even commented in blade magazine this month that the "instagram" crowd has spawned too many makers who just dont have the skill set yet. He even had the stones to say what I have been saying and that is too many makers are doing acid and tumbled finishes because they dont even know how to do a hand rubbed satin. They are using the "overbuilt" and "rough" look as a crutch for laziness. This isnt in and of itself bad. But these same guys cutting corners are charging insanely stupid prices for their knives and we have collectors to blame for paying up and claiming perfection. These people arent completely without talent but they have a long way to go before their skills catch up with their prices. And some of them can cry all day long that they have X amount of hours into a knife and that time costs money but that to me is a bigger indicator of a lack of skill than it is a sign of deserving that paycheck. If you have 40 hours into a folder that you had all the parts waterjet, ordered your hardware from AKS and put it out there with the attention to detail of a 5th grade science project then you should be getting paid minimum wage for a minimal effort or at the very least a pay grade matching your qualifications. Not asking prices that compete with makers 2 decades over you in experience. What chaps my cheeks even more is the constant comparing of certain production companies now producing at "midtech" and "custom" levels. Well considering the knives that are so popular right now I understand why they make the comparison but the bar isnt set very high.

You obviously don't understand what goes into making a knife. Have you ever made something by hand? Probably not with they way you presented your point. Hand made items won't be perfect, nothing is. And if you think you've made something that is perfect, you fail to see what imperfections truly are.

If a sak and mora is all you need, then enjoy. That just leaves more "BS" knives for me!

There are plenty of makers putting out superlative work and not asking for the moon and stars. I dont think handmade automatically equates to an imperfect product. Its that myth that is letting some lesser talent makers get away with murder.

 

[RevDevil]

chapped cheeks are no bueno.
Another summation would be , just because someone can make a knife like object doesn't make it a knife or a quality one at that.

 

[whp]

chapped cheeks are no bueno.
Another summation would be , just because someone can make a knife like object doesn't make it a knife or a quality one at that.

Nice and concise. I agree.

Whenever any item is bought, attention must be paid to the substance versus the promotion. Both factor greatly in the value of an item to consumers.

 

[zack1421]

Another big reason to buy customs is most of the time it's made in America generally great customer services and it helps good hard working people with a true skilled trade make a good life for there family in return helps the country witch helps me cause now they can afford to bring there car in to get fixed by me and sense they did that u can buy another knife just a short simple example not that litteral

Don't get me wrong I buy mass produced stuff to but when I can afford it I buy customs

And if your not happy with a certine maker don't buy it again only hurts them

 

[Gavin S.]

chapped cheeks are no bueno.
Another summation would be , just because someone can make a knife like object doesn't make it a knife or a quality one at that.

Lots of people do art, but that does not make them artists.

 

[The Aflac Duck]

There are plenty of makers putting out superlative work and not asking for the moon and stars. I dont think handmade automatically equates to an imperfect product. Its that myth that is letting some lesser talent makers get away with murder.

I wasn't saying that, but there's more room for error when working something by hand. Things I'm talking about are little tiny marks, scratches, nicks, etc.. Like this small gap on this backspacer, no biggie to me, and not "sloppy craftsmanship" IMO.

I'm not saying that I'd accept a knife with marks like this all over the place, that's sloppy. But one tiny little imperfection like this is acceptable to me.

 

[PURPLEDC]

I wasn't saying that, but there's more room for error when working something by hand. Things I'm talking about are little tiny marks, scratches, nicks, etc.. Like this small gap on this backspacer, no biggie to me, and not "sloppy craftsmanship" IMO.

I'm not saying that I'd accept a knife with marks like this all over the place, that's sloppy. But one tiny little imperfection like this is acceptable to me.

For me its all based on pricepoint. If you are charging dom prices that what i expect in my glass. Too many imho are charging for dom and tossing you a can of pbr.

 

[The Aflac Duck]

For me its all based on pricepoint. If you are charging dom prices that what i expect in my glass. Too many imho are charging for dom and tossing you a can of pbr.

Yea, I hear ya. Like when you see a picture of a makers knife, and it looks flawless. Then, you get one in hand, and you think to yourself "is this even the same knife"? That seems to happen too often nowadays.

I guess we have our own definition of "imperfections". And with me being a construction worker, I'm pretty forgiving if a knife has a couple "dings and dents". I'll be putting some there anyways, but I have to draw a line somewhere. A small gap like pictured above might mean nothing to me, but to another guy, it might mean the end of the world.

 

[ebidis]

I can see the point that the op is making. As the old saying goes "you get what you pay for". Should this not mean that a $500 plus custom should have better quality than a $200 production knife?

I have attended the blade show for the past two years , and have seen the entire spectrum from low end production to high dollar customs. I have seen some exemplary custom work, and also some examples that I thought showed extremely shoddy workmanship, like they were made in junior high shop class. Yet these makers were asking as much as the custom makers with the exemplary pieces. Some custom makers are not that experienced, or as talented as the well known, well established makers, yet they ask prices which are far above their skill levels.

 

[chickenfried]

No. But the small premium shop should have better quality control and catch the imperfect examples more often than than a factory pumping them out by the thousands.

You mean that a human that is prone to error by design is supposed to do better than a precision computer controlled machine?

 

[bodog]

One of the most eye opening facts about knives that slapped me in the face June 7th, 2014 was just how unimpressive a lot of these makers' knives are. I held a lot of blades by some very esteemed makers and I was honestly left wanting. I'll be fair and say the heat treatment could have been outstanding but charging 600 bucks and more is kind of ridiculous for handmade knives with rounded tips, uneven grinds on the blades and/ or handles, pins not fully flushed, the amount of stonewashing or DLC coating on stainless blades, blade geometries that didn't honestly make sense, on and on and on. I saw several makers that truly blew me away, but those were easily 1500 bucks and up, which is probably fair but more than what I wanted to spend.

I will say one company that really blew me away when comparing outstanding quality to reasonable price was Olamic. I won't go into specifics about the ones that were disappointing, but I'm sure some people here would think I was insane. But I saw what I saw and held what I held. What was really surprising was that they brought these pieces as examples of their work to the biggest dedicated knife show in the country and most likely the world. If they brought these as examples to be held and physically inspected and they were still charging a premium, I can only imagine what I would feel if I had my hopes up and blindly trusted and maker and he sent me what I personally witnessed there. Again, there were many fine knives at the show, but there were also knives that were worse than what I could get for 100 bucks from esee or equivalent. It was definitely a wake up call and I've changed how I've viewed the knife world since. Now I'm generally happy finding a great production company to buy from unless a handmade knife maker really shows something extraordinary for a very reasonable price and even then it's a crapshoot if you can get them to answer emails and deliver on time as promised.

 

[bodog]

I can see the point that the op is making. As the old saying goes "you get what you pay for". Should this not mean that a $500 plus custom should have better quality than a $200 production knife?

I have attended the blade show for the past two years , and have seen the entire spectrum from low end production to high dollar customs. I have seen some exemplary custom work, and also some examples that I thought showed extremely shoddy workmanship, like they were made in junior high shop class. Yet these makers were asking as much as the custom makers with the exemplary pieces. Some custom makers are not that experienced, or as talented as the well known, well established makers, yet they ask prices which are far above their skill levels.

Absolutely.

 

[RevDevil]

No. But the small premium shop should have better quality control and catch the imperfect examples more often than than a factory pumping them out by the thousands.

Explain how without this affecting the price? Remember Time = money. A real knifemaker, someone that has literally years of stock removal and/or forging experience is much different than what we are seeing now with the new "Instagram Knife Makers" of the knife world that make or have knives made and they have someone assemble them. They are not all bad, but a great many of them are in it for the money or perceived money. Anyone that has even a clue about knives and how they are made should know this by now. There is a difference there and it's a good idea to know what that is and where the line in sand is drawn before making broad assumptions. There are too many variables to make matter of fact statements across the entire industry.

 

[bearcut]

I wasn't saying that, but there's more room for error when working something by hand. Things I'm talking about are little tiny marks, scratches, nicks, etc.. Like this small gap on this backspacer, no biggie to me, and not "sloppy craftsmanship" IMO.

I'm not saying that I'd accept a knife with marks like this all over the place, that's sloppy. But one tiny little imperfection like this is acceptable to me.

Wow, I don't think I have any production knives with flaws as bad as that.
Too bad the custom maker couldn't fix his error.
How much did you pay for that piece of craftsmanship?

And yes OP, I've seen some pretty crappy customs coming down the pike lately. Everybody wants to be a custom maker now, talented or not.

 

[The Aflac Duck]

Wow, I don't think I have any production knives with flaws as bad as that.
Too bad the custom maker couldn't fix his error.
How much did you pay for that piece of craftsmanship?

As bad as what? You're hard to impress eh?
The maker offered to fix it for me, but I declined...
Him and I actually discussed how this happened, and there is a long explanation which I won't get into, but the maker is a really great guy with the best customer service I've ever dealt with anywhere, even outside of the knife industry.

Again...

A small gap like pictured above might mean nothing to me, but to another guy, it might mean the end of the world.

 

[bearcut]

That doesn't change the fact that that the workmanship is subpar does it?

 

[bearcut]

You edited your post instead of responding?

Well, there you go.