Flashlights? What's up with 'em?

Just how bright are these flashlights?

When compared to things we know.....
like daylight/sunlight?
or normal indoor lighting?

With light meters one can do this quantitatively and get absolute measurements -
but it's hard sometimes to visualize numbers and what they mean......

Yet, I find beamshots - even side-by-side comparative ones that I do helps but still doesn't quite tell the whole story.

So how bright are some of our typical flashlights?

HowBright.jpg


While we have a very clear bright day here in Atlanta - bright sunshine, no clouds in the sky, at approx 3:00PM EST I took a bunch of flashlights outside along with a sheet of regular white copy paper with typing/printing on and compared the flashlights to the daylight/sunlight.

First, the direct sunlight on the paper was WAY too bright for any comfortable reading - I literally wore sunglasses to do this ad-hoc experiment.

I used a tape measure and held the flashlights - moved/played them side to side and tried to see the hotspot on the sunlit paper. Noted where the hotspot merged, and could not be distinguished anymore. Did this several times to confirm the approx position/distance.

Compared to good bright Sunlight ~3PM EST March/10/2005 - Atlanta - bright sunny, cloudless -

from dimmest to brightest -
ArcAAA ~ 3"
MJLED ~ 10"
S1801 (1w Luxeon) ~ 14"
MXDL (3w luxeon copy) ~15"
Streamlight Scorpion (xenon) ~36"

For a more practical level I used a more repeatable trial of a more normal but bright reading intensity - a 60watt soft-white bulb in a table lamp (a flared lamp housing/shade with the insides white - kind of like a "reflector") - set 3feet away from the same white printed paper. Again I played the lights on the paper looking for when the hotspot merged and became indistinguishable from the bulb illumination.

This was actually much harder due to the distance and beam coverage involved - I had to be sure I wasn't seeing the flashlights illuminating up the shadow areas - and it was actually the paper surface being compared..... anyway here are some approximate measurements:

Compared to table lamp 60-watt soft-white bulb at 3 feet away -

ArcAAA ~7.5ft
MJLED ~19ft
S1801 (1w Luxeon) ~26ft
MXDL (3w lux-copy) ~26ft
Scorpion (xenon) ~36ft (+?)

So there you go...

as I've always said Brighter does NOT always = Better.

Since a xenon light like the fabulous Streamlight Scorpion is very bright - it really needs to be more than about 30ft away for good comfortable reading.......

even the dimmest light here - the ArcAAA really is still a bit too bright for comfortable reading - needing to be more than about 6ft away....

Numbers? If you like them, and want to see how the lights compare from these ad-hoc tests - I've done a bunch of calculations - let me know and I'll post them.....

Comments?

--
Vincent

http://UnknownVT2005.cjb.net/
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http://UnknownVincent.cjb.net/
 
Fisher of Men,
If you ever get to check out a L4 in the dark, whether lighting up a room, or a yard, you'll "get it" the second you turn it on;)

I'm a big fan of "dim" flashlights, too. Unfortunately, the best of them IMO, the Arc AAA/AA and CMG Infinity Ultra-G are no longer in production, and the stuff available now from Peak and Gerber are not comparable.
I won't carry anything bigger than the Arc AAA on my keys, and if I go to the trouble of carrying a bigger light, it's usually a brighter light, like a LongBow Micra or SF L4.
BOK said:
Theres the L4 which has a slightly higher lumen rating than the E2E but it shines a different kind of light.
E2E shines a more of a spotlight giving you more distance and throw where as the L4 is shines a floodlight (lights up a bigger area but won't shine as far).
Click to expand...
The E2e and L4 both have large spots with lots of bright spill. The E2e does throw a bit further, but they are not very different. I sold my E2e's head and MN03 LAs after getting a KL4 as they were very similar, except that the L4 is tougher as it doesn't use a LA with a filament to be broken, is much whiter, and because it's regulated, it maintains its brightness/color temp throughout its runtime, plus can be used with rechargeables.
The L4 is a much better flashlight. The only real downsides are that it gets very hot after just a few minutes of use, and the initial cost is high.
The numerous lights that use the P60 have the smaller brighter spot that throws further. They are also longer, bulkier, and generally heavier lights than the E2/L4 (and have more competition from other brands like Streamlight and Pelican, among others).

edit: here's a beamshot I took a couple of years ago.
L-R: SF P60/Streamlight Stinger/SF MN03(E2e)
 
UnknownVT said:
You are right - apples and oranges.

Have you ever tried a practical close task (like reading) with a Xenon SureFire?

I have comfortably -
if it's over 30 feet away -
my arms aren't that long :D

--
Vincent

http://UnknownVT2005.cjb.net
http://UnknownVT.cjb.net
http://UnknownVincent.cjb.net
Click to expand...


honestly, no i havent, BUT i didnt buy my surefire flashlights for reading in bed either, if i did i would buy the $3 radio shack flashlight and save $$ and batts.

why in the world would ya buy a $100 flashlite (or a $50 flashlight, or....)designed for tactical use and worry about being able to read with it, ya lost me on that one lol. its just not one of the uses i had in mind when i plunked down my hard earned $$ for a bright lite.

also, honestly, my surefire lights have never failed to perform any task i asked of it, never have.

i just dont read with the thing lol, in all honesty i have used my E2D to read a map at nite on the side of the road, i held it in my hand w/part of my palm covering part of the lite dimming it, worked fine. certainly worked well enough that i didnt reach into my pocket and pull the AAA arc for the job, no reason to.

if something else works for YOU, alls good, all i'm saying is that for the job "I" need the light for a minimag wont cut it, a surefire does. 'nuff said.
 
SIFU1A said:
if something else works for YOU, alls good, all i'm saying is that for the job "I" need the light for a minimag wont cut it, a surefire does. 'nuff said.
Click to expand...

Similarly for most of the ordinary practical tasks I use a flashlight for, the SureFires are just WAY too bright.

I don't read in bed :D - but often in dark places I may need to read something (like a map) or see detail or find something and lesser intensity flashlights are much more suitable - I have to do that often with my EDC flashlight (and it's NOT a SureFire or any xenon light :D).

Walking outdoors, even in the unlit countryside - a lower intensity flashlight helps a lot to preserve some ability to see outside the circle of light (especially the hotspot), whereas a too bright light makes the pupil close and one absolutely loses that ability and one's vision becomes tunnel - also a very bright flashlight sometimes attracts unwanted attention.

People who do serious night hiking, and caving normally use much lower intensity lights for those reasons ..... xenon lights like the SureFire are just way too bright for those also very legitimate and practical real uses.

I agree it is hard to beat the SureFires for their brightness to size ratio - and how well they are built - they are literally "brilliant"! -
but they are built specifically for much more specialize purpose.
They just simply are not suitable for a lot of normal general situations -
precisely because of their purpose built specialized nature.

Whereas the humble MiniMag probably is a lot more practical for a lot more people for normal general usage.

ie: brightness is not everything,
nor is it desirable in a lot of situations.....

Of course it's apples and oranges - and YMMV :)

--
Vincent

http://UnknownVT2005.cjb.net
http://UnknownVT.cjb.net
http://UnknownVincent.cjb.net
 
UnknownVT said:
You are right - apples and oranges.

Have you ever tried a practical close task (like reading) with a Xenon SureFire?

I have comfortably -
if it's over 30 feet away -
my arms aren't that long :D

--
Vincent

http://UnknownVT2005.cjb.net
http://UnknownVT.cjb.net
http://UnknownVincent.cjb.net
Click to expand...


Man...using a surefire you don't point it straight at the book. If in a room just point it upwards and it'll be enough light to read. Just don't point it directly.

Although even my Inova Microlight is enough to light a room so that i can at least see everything. It's enough light for me to go to the bathroom to pee at night without switching on the lights.

Surefire's are nice but you can get good quality lights for cheaper.
 
Point44 said:
Man...using a surefire you don't point it straight at the book. If in a room just point it upwards and it'll be enough light to read. Just don't point it directly.
Although even my Inova Microlight is enough to light a room so that i can at least see everything. It's enough light for me to go to the bathroom to pee at night without switching on the lights.
Surefire's are nice but you can get good quality lights for cheaper.
Click to expand...

Yep, that sums it up nicely - there are lots of lights much more suitable for general purposes and a lot less expensive.

The SureFires "brilliant" as they are are just not suitable for a lot of ordinary general tasks - as the given examples show.

Although one can be inventive and use the bounced light of a SureFire from the ceiling - this is usually not an option for outdoors -
it's probably much better to use a flashlight that was more suitable in the first place -
even if the SureFire could eat a dozen of them for a snack and still have room for more....... :D

--
Vincent

http://UnknownVT2005.cjb.net
http://UnknownVT.cjb.net
http://UnknownVincent.cjb.net
 
Fisher of Men said:
Hey all,

Quick question. I notice in the "What's in your pocket" thread about EDC's that many people have these crazy expensive SureFire flashlights. What's up with that? Is it just another thing to collect? Do the do something special? I only ask because I'm a big fan of MagLite's. I see no reason to pay more than $20-$30 for a good flashlight. I see some of these SureFire ones that are like $350. What? :confused: What am I missing?

I guess it's kind of like the Sebenza knives costing like $400. I just don't get it.

Please explain if you can :)

Not flaming or looking for trouble. It's only that I started seeing these flashlights when I started getting into knives.

Cheers,
Fisher of Men :)
Click to expand...


the question was whats cool about surefires not whats a good utility lite, though the surefiresd work fine for that too imho. :rolleyes:
 
I agree with Glockman99. I own 4 Surefires but the light that gets the most jacket pocket action is my Streamlight twin task 2L because of the choice of bright and very bright.
 
Excellent thread, btw. Very informative. Here's my 2 cents.

I use mostly SF lights for work. The light that sees the most use is my G2. Compact, bright, and cheap. My main light for working the interior of a fire scene is a Streamlight Survivor. This light has never let me down. The Smoke Cutter beam is not just talk, it really works. The G2 I use for general no-fire related lighting situations, night time investigations of buildings, car accidents, etc. That lamp can light up the side of a building.

My EDC's are either a SF E1e or E2e (it all depends on what time of year) and an Inove X1 with white LED's. I like the X1 due to it's small size, light output, and good looks. I use this light more than any other for general lighting needs around the home and car (my vehicle G2 used only for emergencies and nothing else).
 
I thought of it as kinda Odd at first too, the whole flashlight thing. But last December at the Baltimore Knife Show I picked up a surefire g2 for 32 bucks and I got hooked. I recently got a Surefire e2d (around 100 bucks) as a birthday gift.

Great things to have handy.
 
Surefires are also just plain cool to show off to your friends. when someone tells me they just bought a great new flashlight, i ask them "oh yeah, which one?"..."this one, it's maglite 4d-whatever, look how big and bright it is!"......then i fondle it somewhat and tell them it's a piece of junk. then they go like "really, there can't be anything better than this, i paid $40 for it!"...then i get out my 4 inch, 4 oz. ,SF e2 and shine thme right in the eyes.....end of discussion.

:p
 
victus1 said:
Is there any LED flashlight on the market right now that is as bright or brighter than a 2-cell SureFire light like a E2E, D2, G2, 6P etc?

Thanks
Click to expand...
An aleph db917 was rated at 65 lumens by an integrating sphere.

An hds ultimate/basic edc 60 is rated for 60 lumens by an intergrating sphere.

I know that mathematically the lionheart should be at~70 lumens after reflector and lens losses.

It has been hinted that the upcoming lioncub should be putting out upwards of 80 lumens, do to the u-bin and less reflector surface area.

Thats all of them off of the top of my head.

Oh and a nexgen917 sandwich should break the 65 lumen area, as a badboy 500 was greater than 40 lumens.
 
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