Flat, hollow or convex grind?

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Mar 27, 2009
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For a survival knife, not a pry bar, but a cutting tool that you can use in most any wilderness survival situation would you go for a flat convex or hollow grind? Something like the woodlore that ray mears loves so much or a dozier hollow ground? What grind works best for you?
 
Are you talking about the primary bevel or the edge bevel, or? Nevertheless I would prefer a full convex (from spine to edge). Easy for me to keep sharp. I'd lose some slicing performance vs. a hollow ground blade but the perceived additional strength from added material behind the edge would make up for it in my mind. I would take a saber or else a full flat ground over a hollow ground blade.
 
Any grind, as long as it allows for a thin, acute edge.

Have you considered Scandi grind? I like thin blades, and one of the nice things about Scandi grinds is that it allows reasonable lateral stiffness from even relatively thin blade stock.
 
All of them are good.The convex is very strong,but the hollow is great for cutting.
But for me the most all-around grind is the full flat grind - good cutter,plenty strong and very easy to sharpen :)
 
Convex works for me 'cos it does a bit of everything. It incorporates three things that I prize:

1] Flow. I strongly believe that what follows the cutting edge can be as important as the edge itself. The way whatever you have cut flows across the rest of the blade is not something I can ignore. I'm hoping one day someone with the facilities will examine this with ballistic gelatin and post up some photo illustrations.

2] Traditional way to make a strong edge that I have found nothing else to better.

3] By far the easiest for me to maintain.

Hollow grinds I've probably had more than anything else simply because they have been the most vogue and available over the course of my lifetime. For the most part I have moved away from them. For me they violate [1] Flow. That is important to me because with a utility field pattern I'm concerned just as much about how well a blade cuts through as I am just a sharp edge cutting. Move away from a utility pattern and well executed hollow grinds are acceptable to me. As far as I'm concerned I'd take a hunting pattern in a hollow grind but not an all round field knife. The closest thing I have at the moment is a little hollow ground Moki. It works great for taking critters apart and other shallow cutting but it isn't so good on whole blade disclosing things like onions, potatoes, apples. Poor flow makes it tend to try cracking them like a wedge rather than severing them. I've never encountered a hollow grind for which that isn't the case, and I don't see how it is possible. I do have a thin hollow ground Taylors somewhere that makes a fair stab at cutting through, but that is deceptive. It is just product of the thinness. Stick something else that thin in a more suitable grind against it and it is soon outed.

I've no time at all for the bushcraft bandwagon blades whether it be a Mora or TV prop Scandi knife. These represent the exact opposite of what I want in a field knife. The notion of flow just doesn't happen. They are whittling tools for edge cutting. I think they are great to send bundled with a copy of My First Little Basket in a christmas present for a child. Said child can then go off, and in the absence of genuine cutting chores, can sit and replicate something whittled. Better than throwing into a tree or whatever. I don't tend to that excuse to go cut something thing so they have no appeal. The last bit about what I said of hollow grinds also applies here. In particular I think it accounts for all those episodes of 'this Mora grind is so sharp it can make fuzz sticks'. I once commented here on what follows the cutting edge being the large part of that. I gave the example of a Stanley blade that one had quite deliberately blunted on a rock, that still makes fuzz sticks. Interestingly Scott Gossman agreed on this function of geometry. The larger heavier TV grade Scandis I see make no sense for me to carry. They've got to be the hardest of all to sharpen correctly in the field and excel at edge only stuff. If I thought I was likely to be bored out in the sticks rather than taking a book and an overbuild Scandi for whittling, I'd take the kind of small folding whittler than has been working for generations from Cowboys to contemporary gardeners and florists. That liberates my primary blade to concentrate on genuine work.

Flat grinds with convex edges, like a Laconico, seem like a good choice to me too. They are built to solve certain kinds of problems. This to me is the bottom line. Field knives to me require a really good ability to cut through because those are the kinds of tasks that present themselves in addition to cutting string, or pointing twigs, or dissecting something .etc. The Mears knife and similar come across as toys to me. The raison d'etre is that someone can rush off to the trees and play let's cut twigs up. My knives are not for that purpose, they are for solving real world tasks. As such they join hammering, sawing, chopping and so on as things that are incidental and not ends in themselves requiring their own specialist device.

I'm in a minority on this forum for thinking this way, and it is certain others will disagree, but this is where I'm at.
 
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For a general purpose blade, hollow ground would be my very last choice. Full flat, full convex, or some combination of the two suits my preferences well.
 
I recall seeing a pair of Sebenzas, one brand new and one that had been sharpened many, many times and the hollow grind kept the edge nice and thin over the course of its lifetime. I think that this is one advantage to the hollow grind. One of my flat ground blades that I've had for years and years is now kinda thick at the edge.
 
I tend to favor full convex grinds these days, especially on thinner stock; it gives me the best strength without sacrificing any cutting ability.

I do like full height flat grounds with a convex edge on some thicker blade; my favorite chopper is ground that way.

I like a high hollow grind on hunting knives, especially skinners; some of my Dozier’s cut like lasers, but I would not use them abusive tasks like chopping or batoning.




"If you're not living on the edge, …you're taking up too much space."

Big Mike
 
For a survival knife, which would be used for many tasks other than just cutting, I would go with the full convex. Last on the list would be scandi due to its being prone to edge deformation when used in tasks other than carving/cutting/slicing.
 
Full convex for strength - it affords the thickest spine to thinnest edge profile. It is the best pattern for chopping (hence its use with axes) and prying or applications that require a great deal of toughness in the blade. The strength also is maintained right to the edge so you get less chipping out at the edge itself. It is perhaps the best suited to the true survival knife application. It is not as good at slicing (although you can do well with one that is tuned nicely) because you have to rotate the edge through the slice otherwise the bevel will pull the edge away from the thick material being sliced.

Full flat + convex edge for slicing. Nothing slices (not talking cutting, but slicing through thick pieces like meat or an onion) like full flat. Couple it with a convex edge and there is no real bevel to hang up on (except the very edge) and you simply cut straight through the material being sliced. This is why pretty much every chef's knife is full flat. I like full flats for a variety of chores, they are slightly less strong than full convex, but meet most of my performance needs.

Scandi - they are remarkable tools for woodcraft and carving. Nothing comes close to way a scandi shaves wood. You lay the blade on the large flat bevel and it naturally aligns the edge. Thus the material the knife is resting on keeps it aligned through the shave. They aren't great for slicing because of the way the bevel meets the spine producing a wedge effect. They usually come with a super pointy point.

Hollow - the intended design as PBwilson indicated is for ease of sharpening. If you have a V bevel on a full flat, as you proceed up the V via sharpening you are removing more and more metal per sharpening session over time - causing it to become more difficult to sharpen. At some point you have to rebevel it at a more acute angle on the shoulders. Hollow grinds circumvent that problem at the expense of strength. They have the lowest strength of all designs including scandi as a large portion of the blade is thin relative to the spine. They tend to cut will because they are easy to sharpen as per above. They don't tend to slice all that well because they wedge out where the hollow grind ends and intersects with the spine.

If you lack confidence with your sharpening skills and have a super-steel (wear resistant metal) than hollow grind might be a good choice. If you are using a tool steel then I'd suggest going with the first three options and choosing based on your intended us patterns.
 
For a survival knife, which would be used for many tasks other than just cutting, I would go with the full convex. Last on the list would be scandi due to its being prone to edge deformation when used in tasks other than carving/cutting/slicing.

What do you use your knife for other than carving/cutting/slicing?
 
Either full convex or full flat with a convex edge. Nothing else performs as well at so many tasks with the same ease of maintenance.

You couldn't get me to buy a hollow ground blade if ya paid me to take it.
 
I like Scandi okay, but I prefer full convex and full flat blades. My current favorite happens to be full flat.
 
For working wood and general activities/chores, I have been really enjoying my scandi ground woodlore clones. If the job requires a more robust edge, like chopping heavy brush, cutting 1.5 inch diameter or larger poles, removing large amounts of wood fast, a convex edge is my choice. The convex edge can be on full flat or full convex or even scandi and I don't experience a whole lot of difference.
My axes, hawks, hatchets, machetes and large camp knives all have convex edges.
Ted
 
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