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flicking your knife open
- Thread starter egroeg555
- Start date
reddevil, perhaps I did not state it right, I was referring to the arrest of someone who commited armed robbery with a knife that I could flick open in front of the ADA and Judge. The victim was not able to fly back from Europe to testify as to the robbery and a smart defendant would work this angle in a plea bargin or delay the trial to the point where it was dismissed. If in that case the charges where a felony robbery charge and a misd weapons charge, I was always happy the weapons charge would stick because I was able to flick open the knife. I don't see how this could be any way a lack of integrity?
I would never had taken someone in on the weapons charge alone. Where do you see a lapse of integrity in following the letter of the law as to how a knife functions especially when it was recovered as part of a robbery arrest ? In most cases if it was a broken soda bottle used as a weapon in the robbery that charge remains, but the victim must testify that it was used as a weapon. A gravity knife is by defintion a weapon. I welcome your correction as I don't see where you would feel it was in any way wrong? The weapons charge stands on its own as a matter of law and can be prosecuted based on the will of the people of the State of NY. The robbery must be judged on the testimony of the victim and if the defendant counters the affaidavit of the victim the robbery charge is more subject to rejection. That is common law within the US. I would rather see a robber get his due on a weapons charge that was lawfully prosecuted than to walk away free looking for his next victim.
I would never had taken someone in on the weapons charge alone. Where do you see a lapse of integrity in following the letter of the law as to how a knife functions especially when it was recovered as part of a robbery arrest ? In most cases if it was a broken soda bottle used as a weapon in the robbery that charge remains, but the victim must testify that it was used as a weapon. A gravity knife is by defintion a weapon. I welcome your correction as I don't see where you would feel it was in any way wrong? The weapons charge stands on its own as a matter of law and can be prosecuted based on the will of the people of the State of NY. The robbery must be judged on the testimony of the victim and if the defendant counters the affaidavit of the victim the robbery charge is more subject to rejection. That is common law within the US. I would rather see a robber get his due on a weapons charge that was lawfully prosecuted than to walk away free looking for his next victim.
- Joined
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And you know what: I bet a fair number of non-LEO citizens would agree with you. But what you're arguing is that the ends justify the means. Bad, bad road to head down, my friend. Once you start using that logic: Where does it end?tom19176 said:
So somebody that disagrees with you "liberally" interpreting what constitutes a "gravity knife" has the attitude of a criminal, eh? Or is it your trumping-up of charges with which he disagrees?tom19176 said:
Yeah, well, there's a reason, many reasons, actually, why a sane person avoids big cities. You just named one of them.tom19176 said:
By your "reasoning," tom19176, any Benchmade with Axis-Lock would be a "gravity knife," seems to me. Do you regard Kershaws with assisted opening as spring/automatic knives, too?
EDCeeker, I will hopefully say this for the last time. I love knives and have since I was ten. I was shocked when I first got involved with law enforcement to find out that any knife that can be flicked open was illegal in many states and by the Federal law ( which only applies in certain cases). Yes, if you read the law axis locks are gravity knives in very many cases because they fit the definition of gravity knives as written into law within that state. I don't like it, but I only stated any of this as a fellow knife collector who wanted to bring it to others attention that they may unknowningly be violateing the law. I think the Kershaws are not switchblades, but some as in the leek I own, can be flicked open with out the use of the AO mechanism. Walmart sells them and states " not legal in all states" right on their printed display board. Walmart was fined in Chicago for selling them, which caused them to state that warning.
I also agree with you that it is far better to live somewhere that is very knife friendly, and I would love to relocate some day to an area that truly believes in the second amendment.
I also agree with you that it is far better to live somewhere that is very knife friendly, and I would love to relocate some day to an area that truly believes in the second amendment.
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tom19176, I apologize for the harsh tone of my comments. Historically, I've been exceedingly pro-LE. But the War On Some Drugs, the so-called "War On Terror," and various other excuses used to justify ever more limitations on our liberty and intrustion into our privacy, enforced by turning civilian law enforcement into armored, ski-masked assault teams that break down the doors of peoples' homes in the dead of the night and confiscate property, sometimes never to be returned, even if no charges are ever upheld, is kind of beating that out of me. Sorry.
Is this true Thomas, the latter part of it?
Theres a store here in WEM(west edmonton mall) that sells AO kershaws, been doin it for awhile, every now an then they would tell me a LEO would come in and hassle them over the AO's.
They would do the usuall suspect mantra, it looks like a switchblade, it acts like a switchblade, so it must be a switchblade thing.
The store manager and salespoeple would simply state, it does not fully open the knife, the blade must be moved so many degrees before an assist took place unlike the Autos that open fully from a dead closed stop.
Leo leaves the store.
There are a very visible set of actions needed to open an AO from Kershaw, no simple push a button an go thing at all.
Abuse is abuse, read the letter or read the wake up call.
If the Springs have been removed from an Axis, ok it is a gravity now, If the AO has been modified to open from a sprung position, it is now a switchblade.
If non of the above apply, they are legal equipment on a legal citizen.
Move on.
WR
tom19176 said:
Tom,
I live in Ohio and I have asked serveral local cops (all from different departments) and they have all said that what you state is not the case. Maybe that's how it is in NY but not in Ohio.
I can flick my Benchmade 550 out like that if I want but all the cops I have met that have seen the knife, said that it's totally legal and they have had no problems with it.
If you really want to I would imagine you could call anything a gravity knife.
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Joe-Dirt said:No, actually Tom, your attitude is criminal. You're speaking like a crooked cop.
Exactly.
That is my entire point. Any time someone on this board mentions flicking a knife, he chimes in with his insidious misreading of the laws.
It is just plain wrong, a blatant disregard of the law and peoples rights.
You say you learned this from reading the laws? I say you need a class in remedial reading and comprehension. Maybe some professional counseling on integrity and ethics. Maybe a plain old smack upside the head.
If believing in my rights and being disgusted by corrupt cops and their actions makes me a criminal, then I am proud to be a criminal.
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If a guy is using a knife to rob someone, it doesn't really matter how he opened it. What matters is he's using it to rob someone. If he was using a bat, would the penalty be more severe for an aluminum bat than a wood bat. The whole flicking the knife open thing is like saying a semi-auto rifle is really and auto if I pull the trigger really fast. This is crap...
OilMan
Gold Member
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Joe-Dirt said:No, actually Tom, your attitude is criminal. You're speaking like a crooked cop.
I agree. It's like the law in Illinois that says you can't squat in the fast lane of a highway. It will never be enforced unless the officer can't find a real reason to pull someone over. In the end it's always Cops Prerogative.:grumpy:
Joe-Dirt said:
Me too. The laws have to be applied fairly across the board. Charging someone who committed a robbery at knifepoint with possession of a gravity knife and not charging an innocent citizen who is carrying the same knife just isn't kosher. As someone said above, the viewpoint of doing so is that the ends justify the means. But our legal system was founded on the basis that the ends never just the means.
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gnok said:
They are all fine and dandy. If a knife has a Detent or spring that keeps it closed, it is NOT a gravity knife. The definition of what a gravity knife is does not change depending on the skill of the flicker. If a feeble old granny who has never flicked open a knife in her life can flick open your knife first try, then it "could" be considered a gravity knife. If I, or someone else (such as a crooked cop) who has a developed skill and powerful snap wrist flicks can do it, well that is just meaningless. An entire class of tools does not become illegal just because one shady cop says it is so.