flicking your knife open

But didn't a crime of robbery take place by one but not the other? If we want to ignore the robbery then the law when written as vague as this, is in fact a law against all folders, which may be the reason it was written in such a nebulus manner. If no amount of force is specified in the word of the law and if enough force is applied any folder can be flicked open and falls under the law. If no intervening crime such as robbery is required then we are all guilty who own folders. I for one don't want to be a criminal unless I'm a real threat not because of a poorly written law
 
I still contend that if everyone here used their knives in a discreet and responsible manner that 99% of us would never have a problem. If the rest would quit showing their knives to LEO's and asking about legality we could get that up to 100%.
 
Tom is an example of a cop who abuses his power. He stated in an earlier post that he is happy to flick people's knives open and arrest them for it. All the cops I know don't even bother with people's knives unless the person is already causing trouble and asking for it.

Cops that abuse their power are the worst. I say this because they can do more damage than some criminals.
 
Instead of crying about equal enforcment or Tom we should be screaming about poorly written laws. If we are not very careful we WILL end up like England.
 
Joe-Dirt said:
Tom is an example of a cop who abuses his power. He stated in an earlier post that he is happy to flick people's knives open and arrest them for it. All the cops I know don't even bother with people's knives unless the person is already causing trouble and asking for it.

Cops that abuse their power are the worst. I say this because they can do more damage than some criminals.
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And will leave a bad taste for corrupt enforcement in thier family for years an generations to come.

Yes, we need to wake up if we are to avoid the UK's plight.

Tom, if thier that bad, that you have to trump em, maybe you should just shoot them on the spot instead. Be a lot less 'splainin to do lucy.


WR
 
wlynn said:
But didn't a crime of robbery take place by one but not the other? If we want to ignore the robbery then the law when written as vague as this, is in fact a law against all folders, which may be the reason it was written in such a nebulus manner. If no amount of force is specified in the word of the law and if enough force is applied any folder can be flicked open and falls under the law. If no intervening crime such as robbery is required then we are all guilty who own folders. I for one don't want to be a criminal unless I'm a real threat not because of a poorly written law
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What I was trying to say is that if the knife isn't illegal for me or you to carry while not committing a crime, then charging a criminal with carrying that knife is blatantly wrong. Either it's illegal for all of us or legal for all of us.

wlynn, next time you quote something I posted please include the entire quote and not simply a portion of it. I would prefer it if you didn't make it seem as if I am against charging criminals with the crimes they actually committed.
 
Ok. I give up. You guys win. I will not comement on the law on this forum again. What I had said, was I DID NOT arrest someone ever for carrying any type of knife. I felt an obligation to tell my fellow collectors that they should be aware that state laws often say that flicking a knife open make it by defintion a gravity knife. My comment about arresting someone who commited an armed robbery while using a gravity knife on a victim who could not return to NY was to explain that since I am a knife collector and lover that I always respected other peoples rights in this area. I was saying the only time I deemed a knife to be worthy an arrest was when it was used in the clear comission of a crime. I will always be proud of putting an armed robber in jail for using a illegal knife to commit his crime.

How does anyone feel this is wrong ? You do not understand the law. The law allows you to arrest someone SOLELY for possessing a knife that can be opened by gravity or centifcal force. The fact that it is recovered during a robbery arrest and was the result of a lawful search leads it to be deemed a legal item of evidence. If an LEo sees a knife on your belt or clipped to you pocket in NYC you are violateing the NYC admin code and can be arrested. If the officer now examines the knife and can flick it open, the charge is upgraded to possession of a gravity knife. There is no legal standard as to how much force is needed to do this. I wish there was.

I was attemting to state what I feel is something all collectors should be aware of. But after seeing the response I got in return I will not do that again.
 
New York Penal Law Section 265.00...

4. "Switchblade knife" means any knife which has a blade which opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in the handle of the knife. 5. "Gravity knife" means any knife has a blade which is released from the handle or sheath thereof by the force of gravity or the application of centrifugal force which, when released, is locked in place by means of a button, spring, lever, or other device.

While gravity knife may mean one thing to collectors and historians, it means something different to the law makers of New York state. The laws in your area may be different, however, in New York any knife that can be opened by gravity or centrifugal force is defined as a gravity knife.

You may not like the law but it is the law.

The only people that should have to worry about this are people that are getting stopped by police officers (criminals). Personally, that is something that I try to actively avoid (by not being a criminal). Don't give LEOs any reason to stop you and they won't. Weapons charges are typically associated with some other violation (like the one that you were actually stopped and/or detained for). I am not a LEO, but I see nothing wrong with persuing a weapons violation
 
Tom you are wrong and a good public defender/private hire will eat you alive. I am not saying your interpretation of the law is criminal however your actions of charging someone with stacked charges that could and may be looked at as shady will haunt you some day. 11 years ago when I was new on the street I would do just that. I got away with it for 4 or 5 years because I made solid collars and the other charges didn't really intensify the situation. However there was a trial 3 years ago where the federal public defender, who was more studied than the average ambulance chaser, kicked my ass in trial. It was a DWI where I stacked the charges on the guy because he was a complete ass and I could find quite a few charges that were window dressing to the real meat of the case. I did this because the people he hit were out-of-towners and I thought the same as you. On the stand I testified as normal and when it came to the question of all the other charges and I tried to tap dance around statutes, the judge, who I consider a mentor of mine, threw out the case. He also gave me a look of discontent that I will never forget. I understand enforcing the spirit of the law as opposed to the letter of the law, and I can see by your post that you do too, so no biggie here. Just understand that it is plainly evident that you know none of these knives in question, like the axis lock BM's and such are gravity knives. Because of that you know you are doing the wrong thing just to make a lockup stick when the report and other supporting evidence if written and presented properly will hold thier own water. The funny thing is, as I am writing this I am talking to my aunt who is a federal appeals court judge now but has been in the trenches. I asked her for her thoughts on the matter, and she agrees with me to this extent. In a low court like the one where your cases on these type of Mis/Fel cases are heard and you have like 100 cases on the docket for one day, the judge and prosecuter/defender probably just buzz through the cases. However, in a court of higher power, where people take thier jobs a little more seriously and arn't burnt out, these charges will get questioned. But in the end, if it works for you and you don't mind the extra work then go for it. I am sure you arn't a jerk or anything, and I believe in the thin blue line as much as anyone so I am not trying to start in on you too much. Just a bit of razzing from one ground pounder to another. Just remember that if you think your charges have some holes in them, then they probably do. If I was the defendant and know what I know, I would get off on the extra charges and you would have wasted your time. Finally, to answer the original question. Yes it is bad for the knife to be flicked open, unless it is designed for that purpose. Rule of thumb for me is. If it comes with a flipper, like some of the Kershaws, and customs made by DDR then yeah go ahead. If it is just so smooth that you can but has no feature that makes it a flipper than don't try it unless you don't care about blade play. Exceptions are the Emerson's with with the wave. They can open with some force so if you do flick one of them and it develops play then it should be covered by the warrantee.
 
MaxFisher When I spoke of ignoring the robbery I was not refering to you. I should have stated it as...Taking the crime of robbery out of the equation then we are left with a poorly written ill defined law that is ripe for misuse and overly broad enforcement on anyone with a folder.

As far as my partial quote I was simply pointing out the idea that a criminal and an innocent citizen should both be treated the same struck me as sounding strange. Should you not have said one criminal who commits two crimes, robbery and have an illegal weapon and a criminal who commits one crime of have an illegal weapon should both be treated as criminals.

If we accept these stupid knife laws then there was no innocent citizen in your post. That was what I was pointing out.

I am sorry I did such a poor job. Forgive me.
 
hlee said:
New York Penal Law Section 265.00...

4. "Switchblade knife" means any knife which has a blade which opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in the handle of the knife. 5. "Gravity knife" means any knife has a blade which is released from the handle or sheath thereof by the force of gravity or the application of centrifugal force which, when released, is locked in place by means of a button, spring, lever, or other device.

...You may not like the law but it is the law.
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Well, there's ANOTHER reason not to visit New York. Honestly part of the problem is that knives don't have the luxury that computers have, which is coming into widespread use in a modern age. Technology is moving faster than the law for computers, but knives have been around forever. There are laws written to try and curb different sorts of crime, and in order to do that they wrote in a lot of "fishing" clauses (i.e. "or any other device/lever/mechanism which would do the same thing"). We need better definition to the laws.
 
Like I said, Alot of arguments on this but one necessity. The laws are not specific enough. Unfortunately I don't think enough of us in favor of the changes to the laws, outweigh the narrowminded who think them suffice.:(
 
Let's assume that the original post of "knife flicking" and the ability to do so is against the letter of the law in NY, OK?

WELL, do what the guys in Canada do, and tighten the knife down so it can't be flicked open. The knife will still work, it will just take more effort. When you get out of NY, then you can adjust it back to normal function.

I grew up in NY, and have been convinced that the state is beyond redemption ever since Hillary Clinton became a senator for New York.:grumpy:

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
wlynn said:
MaxFisher As far as my partial quote I was simply pointing out the idea that a criminal and an innocent citizen should both be treated the same struck me as sounding strange. Should you not have said one criminal who commits two crimes, robbery and have an illegal weapon and a criminal who commits one crime of have an illegal weapon should both be treated as criminals.

If we accept these stupid knife laws then there was no innocent citizen in your post. That was what I was pointing out.

I am sorry I did such a poor job. Forgive me.
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You haven't offended my wlynn. But I believe that every person in this country (whether they committed a robbery or not) is entitled to the same rights and privileges. This is because we are all innocent until proven guilty in this country. Now, once a person is either found guilty by a jury or pleads guilty to a crime then they are not so entitled to all of those rights (although they do have some rights). So, to arrest someone who "allegedly" commited a crime and charge them with possession of a gravity knife and to not do so to someone on whose person the same model of knife was found during say a routine traffic stop is wrong in my opinion.
 
Depending on the knife and how tight the screw is, I have some that are a milliturn from either uncomfortable to open one-handed to flickable, whatever degree that turns out to be. Since that seems to be up to the LEO on the spot, I guess there's not much you can do except hope you get a warning or get the laws changed but since there's no definition on how hard you have to flick it, that too is up to the officers interpretation.
 
I flick mine open all the time. Then I walk across the room, pick up the blade and put it back in. (I've gotta stop buying those Chinese imports!)
 
Knife laws in NY do suck...I don't live in the city, but I used to frequent a knife shop in Flushing. That was of course until
1. the guy was raided and had all his "flickable" knives confiscated
2. when I came here and learned more about knives.

Not that it was garbage, but mostly SOG fixed blades and other similar to lower quality fb's now. Pricey compared to the internet, though the guy would give me and my friend decent markdowns. Real cool guy, felt bad that he got most of his folders (mostly CRKTs) taken away...All that's left that folds are some SAK style knives.
 
GFarrell3 said:
Like I said, Alot of arguments on this but one necessity. The laws are not specific enough. Unfortunately I don't think enough of us in favor of the changes to the laws, outweigh the narrowminded who think them suffice.:(
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Then there's people in states like mine who would like clearer laws (although admitedly, ours here are clearer than lots), but would prefer to leave things alone before somebody notices that they don't prohibit switchblades and balisongs. I feel that if we bring it up, they'll go "whoops" and make stricter laws...despite the fact that there isn't exactly a rash of switchblade stabbings here.:jerkit:
 
Planterz said:
Then there's people in states like mine who would like clearer laws (although admitedly, ours here are clearer than lots), but would prefer to leave things alone before somebody notices that they don't prohibit switchblades and balisongs. I feel that if we bring it up, they'll go "whoops" and make stricter laws...despite the fact that there isn't exactly a rash of switchblade stabbings here.:jerkit:
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True. It seems that everytime they are brought up it's only to enforce them more not less. Sucks.:(
 
My condolences to those who live in New York. I live on ten acres in the middle of bum f*ck Nebraska. We here still run around with 22.250 in the back glass of our pickups as to be ready for an occasional coyote. I flick my Ruckus and various knives all the time here. Of course living where I do I get to drink some of the best water in the land out of my well. It’s the little things in life that make it fun to live here, Like walking out onto the front porch and taking a whiz, knowing the nearest person over 1000 ft away. Or my 14-year son setting up a target in the back yard and watching him group .22 rounds. Yes we FLICK in private and in the great outdoors, and no one gives a sh#t. I used to live in L.A. Calif. I do not miss the trade off. From many restaurants to choose from, and now Bald Eagles and Canadian Honkers fly over my house. I love that it takes 20 min to get to town, And Flicking your favorite folder is a God given right.
 
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