Flipper fumble

I've had that happen a couple times and I always revert to 2 hand opening, I don't even think about it. Had to pull my Zaan out and deploy quickly w/real messy hands. Before I even pulled it out I knew one handed was going to be an issue so I just grabbed the blade and pulled it out w/my free hand. It's more intuitive and reliable opening most knives 2 handed, even a good one handed opener. Unless you practice a lot w/one knife it seems there's always a second where you have to get your hand in the correct position for one handed opening. A fixie or a wave opener would eliminate the issue but in my case there's never been an instance where I momentarily cuss the knife, I just pull the blade out w/my free hand. If I only have 1 hand available I prefer studs (my preference anyway), slick fingers can slide off flipper tabs and holes are recessed. I'm personally not a fan of wave openers but I have a couple knives if I press them toward the outside of my pocket when pulling them out the studs will catch on the hem of my pocket and deploy the blade. I have to do it intentionally but it's kind of fun once in a while.

Get a Microtech Socom Elite manual and just shake it out, weakest detent ever.​
 
I think a knife capable of two handed opening is prob my best option. My flipper's blade is deeply recessed in the handle and hard to get in a pinch grip.
Guess I get to buy a new knife! Thanks everybody
 
Some framelocks (flipper or not) are more prone to failure by death-grip. The irony for me is that my knife most guilty of this isn't a flipper, but it IS an Ermerson ZT. The knife simply won't open using the thumb disk method without holding the knife in the most ginger of grasps. Opens fine if you wave it (as it is designed), but just thumbing it open is a no go. In a bad situation, I would be in trouble.

Im a big fan of OTF knives when speed is required. As long as you have the button pointed in the right way and have thumb strength, it will most likely open just fine. If you get a misfire, it's still free to move. Just give the knife a hard shake and it'll lock up.

For traveling by car, where legal, I carry a Microtech of some flavor either clipped to an easily accessible pocket or secured in the console. I like the idea of a sharp knife that doesn't have to fold and a glass breaker close at hand in case I need to get out in a crash or roll over.
 
Get yourself a pickelhaube.
It will always be at the ready. Never a deployment issue.
Wear it with a Harley jacket and folks won't even look at you funny.

Assuming you can keep your head......
 
Look at this way... You just learned, a lot, about yourself. That lesson is invaluable! Get your head around this from what you learned about your reaction to stress, adrenalin, and functioning in that moment.
 
Steely_Gunz said:
Some framelocks (flipper or not) are more prone to failure by death-grip. The irony for me is that my knife most guilty of this isn't a flipper, but it IS an Ermerson ZT. The knife simply won't open using the thumb disk method without holding the knife in the most ginger of grasps. Opens fine if you wave it (as it is designed), but just thumbing it open is a no go. In a bad situation, I would be in trouble.

Im a big fan of OTF knives when speed is required. As long as you have the button pointed in the right way and have thumb strength, it will most likely open just fine. If you get a misfire, it's still free to move. Just give the knife a hard shake and it'll lock up.

For traveling by car, where legal, I carry a Microtech of some flavor either clipped to an easily accessible pocket or secured in the console. I like the idea of a sharp knife that doesn't have to fold and a glass breaker close at hand in case I need to get out in a crash or roll over.
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This. Not all knives are equal. Some definitely are more prone to the death grip. For me, the ZT 0452cf is a clear example. The detent on the thing doesnt help. The person plays into this as well. We dont all hold knives the same. Some of us happen to grip knives in a place where we might put more pressure on the lockbar
 
Does not sound it has anything to do with the flipper. Would probably take 20 seconds or even longer for you to pull it out if it were a gun.
 
sharp_edge said:
Does not sound it has anything to do with the flipper. Would probably take 20 seconds or even longer for you to pull it out if it were a gun.
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I don't know how you come to that conclusion...or that time frame.

I can draw a handgun from concealment faster than I can draw and deploy a pocketknife. (Unless I'm bundled in winter clothes and haven't moved it to a jacket pocket, and even then it would be close.)

Twenty seconds is an eternity.
 
You know I exaggerated but the point is it has more to do with muscle memory and composure of mind than the opening mechanism of the knife.

I actually wanted to say he fumbled the gun instead of talking 20 seconds. ;)
 
sharp_edge said:
You know I exaggerated but the point is it has more to do with muscle memory and composure of mind than the opening mechanism of the knife.

I actually wanted to say he fumbled the gun instead of talking 20 seconds. ;)
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Okay. It's just that it's something I train fairly regularly, (I carry AIWB), so I was trying to wrap my head around where you were going with it. Thanks for clarifying somewhat.
 
Thank you to the people who gave me solid advice - I did learn a lot about myself during the situation and I won't take that chance again, I'll get a folder I can open with two hands easily.

I thought I kept a pretty cool head during the emergency despite the fact that I had an insane amount of adrenaline making me squeeze the knife slightly harder than normal (it is very hard to open with the slightest pressure on the lockbar but otherwise an amazing knife)

I'm guessing that all the people mocking my reaction to stress are amazing ninjas who do backflips regularly while taking out bad guys with throwing knives. Meanwhile, I work in an office.
 
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Maybe a liner lock flipper or a compression lock flipper would be better. Or even a button lock. You wouldn't put pressure on the lockbar when attempting to open, as that is a problem primarily associated with framelocks.
 
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mvm217 said:
Thank you to the people who gave me solid advice - I did learn a lot about myself during the situation and I won't take that chance again, I'll get a folder I can open with two hands easily.

I thought I kept a pretty cool head during the emergency despite the fact that I had an insane amount of adrenaline making me squeeze the knife slightly harder than normal (it is a shiro, very hard to open with the slightest pressure on the lockbar but otherwise an amazing knife)

I'm guessing that all the people mocking my reaction to stress are amazing ninjas who do backflips regularly while taking out bad guys with throwing knives. Meanwhile, I work in an office.
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I do backflips straight out of my desk chair while ninja-ing up the interwebz. All kidding, aside, good luck with your search for the perfect knife for emergency situations.

Maybe a subframe lock would work better if you are into flippers. My WE Deacon I tested out and flips fine even when squeezed hard.
 
Unpopular opinion alert!

Muscle memory is great but wouldn't be a "cure" here. You can pressure test your technique, you can practice opening under stress but there is still "artificiality" (as we say regarding our drills at work). So you are never gonna achieve that same level of "HOLY S**T" that you will during a true emergency AND using a knife that works less effectively the more stress you are under, for potential emergencies, is just bad. You're not talking about missing a thumb studs. That could be trained out much easier than having to learn to NOT grip tightly during a stress situation. Quite frankly, I think you have identified a serious flaw in the design (as far as an emergency tool goes) and would seek a locking system less prone to stress generated failure.

Obviously, a FB that allows a full grip before drawing, is pretty hard to beat. That said, I have several folders and have practiced opening them, A LOT, under various conditions. I have found some that are bad about partial openings. I have found some that are almost impossible to cause a failed opening. They're not equal. Some knives lend themselves better to high stress opening than others. Sounds like you found one that doesn't. Keep looking and I'd look at other lock types.
 
Trailer_Ape said:
Unpopular opinion alert!

Muscle memory is great but wouldn't be a "cure" here. You can pressure test your technique, you can practice opening under stress but there is still "artificiality" (as we say regarding our drills at work). So you are never gonna achieve that same level of "HOLY S**T" that you will during a true emergency AND using a knife that works less effectively the more stress you are under, for potential emergencies, is just bad. You're not talking about missing a thumb studs. That could be trained out much easier than having to learn to NOT grip tightly during a stress situation. Quite frankly, I think you have identified a serious flaw in the design (as far as an emergency tool goes) and would seek a locking system less prone to stress generated failure.

Obviously, a FB that allows a full grip before drawing, is pretty hard to beat. That said, I have several folders and have practiced opening them, A LOT, under various conditions. I have found some that are bad about partial openings. I have found some that are almost impossible to cause a failed opening. They're not equal. Some knives lend themselves better to high stress opening than others. Sounds like you found one that doesn't. Keep looking and I'd look at other lock types.
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I agree - when the SHTF it felt like my body was electrified. I was still able to use the knife but every move I made was exaggerated. I wouldn't be able to replicate the feeling intentionally. I love cool, interesting knives to use in the office opening boxes, but when I go out into the world where emergencies could happen I think I'll find a more practical knife. Something that's more of a "tool" than "man jewelry"
 
mvm217 said:
I agree - when the SHTF it felt like my body was electrified. I was still able to use the knife but every move I made was exaggerated. I wouldn't be able to replicate the feeling intentionally. I love cool, interesting knives to use in the office opening boxes, but when I go out into the world where emergencies could happen I think I'll find a more practical knife. Something that's more of a "tool" than "man jewelry"
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I like to think the two are not mutually exclusive. You can find a practical hard use tool that is intuitive during emergencies...... and still have a little bling :D
 
mvm217 said:
I agree - when the SHTF it felt like my body was electrified. I was still able to use the knife but every move I made was exaggerated. I wouldn't be able to replicate the feeling intentionally. I love cool, interesting knives to use in the office opening boxes, but when I go out into the world where emergencies could happen I think I'll find a more practical knife. Something that's more of a "tool" than "man jewelry"
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If you can get your hands on one of the Demko AD-20's...I think that would be a great knife for the real world...assuming that a six ounce knife will work for you. The lock is truly impressive, the thumb studs and / or slot work excellently, and the action is very smooth and slick. It's probably the most fool proof folder in my arsenal at the moment.

They are hard to come by...but...apparently they will be producing a lower cost version with AUS-10A and Grivory in the relatively near future.

Something to consider, again, if the size and weight are not an issue for you. I think it beats the pants off most alternatives.
 
I once had a knife not open properly in a stressful situation as there happened to be lint from my pocket between tang and stop pin. Since then, I always worry about stop-pins :) Another time, I had a cut on my index finger, and flippers (only) were out for a couple of weeks.

Point being that sh*t can happen, even if you trained your muscle memory, it might still go wrong. So in addition to stress training, you can avoid possible failure mechanisms by training some redundancy, and use knives with more fail-proof locking mechanisms. For example, I'm right-handed, but routinely use my flippers and Spydercos with my left hand as well. The AD-20 mentioned by Blues is pretty fool proof; I have one with Spydiehole and thumb-stud. Another one that I like is the Hinderer Fulltrack (G10 protected RIL, stop pin inside the tang, etc.); there are plenty of knives with redundant opening mechanisms (the AD-20 and Fulltrack have 2, I have a Cheburkov flipper with a Spydiehole, the Spyderco Vallotton has 3 (!) redundant openening mechanisms, etc., etc.).
 
ferider said:
there are plenty of knives with redundant opening mechanisms (the AD-20 and Fulltrack have 2,
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Though I don't, you can also flip open the AD-20 by releasing the lock as you draw the knife.
 
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