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Flipping!
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I understand your perspective, but I don't believe much in entitlement, when it comes to price guarantees, on limited production collectibles. Life is competitive. You can complain, or get educated and clever. Learn to get what you want, by your own abilities, and stop pointing out what the other guy is doing, unless he is breaking some serious laws.
To quote from from your post #98:
"You are willfully ignoring most of the premises that this entire thread is based upon, including the manufacturers turning everything into short runs or SFOs, dealers (not you, Mike ) cutting deals with middlemen to hand over huge batches of limited knives at retail (or less!) so they can go pump the price up 150% or more on the secondary market (guess what -- that's called "price manipulation" and in many jurisdictions is a crime), or other questionable practices leading to artificial increases in the supply/demand curve (see also: the recent snafu regarding the snakewood-handled Vipers from GEC)."
I think your accusatory tone concerning GEC is quite clear. Maybe you should go back and read again.
I dislike flipping but I accept that it is a reality and it cannot be stopped.
What irritates me is when I fly halfway around the world to a custom knife show, see a knife I want to purchase only to be told that it is sold by lottery only and the maker will not take an order.
Then more often than not when that knife is won in the lottery the buyer instantly reposts it at a massive profit on a forum or instagram, or sells it on to a dealer.
I accept that he won it fair and square and he can do what he wants with it, but it irritates the crap out of me.
Flipping is a fact of life but I urge makers and manufacturers to take care of their collectors and enthusiasts first.
What irritates me is when I fly halfway around the world to a custom knife show, see a knife I want to purchase only to be told that it is sold by lottery only and the maker will not take an order.
Then more often than not when that knife is won in the lottery the buyer instantly reposts it at a massive profit on a forum or instagram, or sells it on to a dealer.
I accept that he won it fair and square and he can do what he wants with it, but it irritates the crap out of me.
Flipping is a fact of life but I urge makers and manufacturers to take care of their collectors and enthusiasts first.
Proof of what? Mike from CK already intimated that he's seen it happen with his own shop. Are you claiming this isn't happening? How do you explain the same X dealers on fleabay showing up with the same X patterns for the same X markup every single time there's a new run?
Denialism is a sad state, but it's even worse when it's patently absurd.
"blanket statement"? If anything, you've gone and demonstrated that I was being too magnanimous with my wording. It's towards the people who specifically realize they are damaging the hobby and still go through with their profiteering that this thread is partially directed.
Do you wish to pay more for your hobby? Do you feel like you're gaining something by overtly supporting the practice of zero-day flipping? If so, what? Perhaps we should investigate your motivations specifically?
Entitlement? Please point out where I asked for any of this, or indeed how this is even relevant to the conversation? The whole point is that the flippers have managed to artificially pump the supply/demand curve to the point where manufacturers (yes, plural -- read the thread) are essentially shifting to an "all-SFO" or "all-limited" model of production. It's not sustainable and it can only be harmful in the long term. There are also legal questions about collusion, international commerce, exclusivist sourcing, etc. Certain sourcing/acquisition practices may not be strictly "illegal" by the letter of the law but they are surely questionable ethically.
Trying to dilute this into "buyers are butthurt because their toys are too 'spensive" is a vast misapprehension of the entire argument. Sorry.
Just how many pages of this thread did you skip, anyway?
This is a direct result of flipping's artificial impact on market forces.
If you think GEC was responsible for the dealers going full clownface over the snakewood Vipers then you are speaking from a position of ignorance.
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I have a website I flip the shit out of them,for other people who don't have the time. 100% of sales will sell at what the market is demanding. Why should an individual lose. Greedy peeps are ,well,just greedy. You don't have to buy it. If you keep missing knives,get your act together & dowhat it takes
Nature Boy
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I like this idea. Should I ever make a move to sell something, or do a GAW, hoping it goes to a "good home," I will certainly consider doing this.
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Hell that Zulu will be the most collected knife north woods ever produced.Thoughts please.....
I'm not looking to start finger pointing but I simply wonder whether flipping on this forum is something worth a little thought.
I've been quiet on the forum for a while, not due to any gripe but simply because I've been busy with life closer to home.
In that time what was a growing part of this forum has continued to, well, grow. I'm going to focus on GEC and their output as it suits this part of the forum. before I left you would expect SFO's to be flipped, particularly runs of TC's. Recently I watched as runs of the Esky Zulu were flipped for prices up to $325, custom prices. It now appears that GEC's own popular production runs are being flipped, something I hadn't really seen before.
Now my thoughts are, hey, we're in a free market right? People will pay what they're prepared to pay.... Fine but my only thought is, given how GEC's runs are limited it seems a bit unfair to those who genuinely wanted a particular pattern may have to pay over the odds because they weren't quick enough with their digit.
Also, I love GEC but I a also feel by inflating the price of their knives you are creating an unfair comparison with custom makers work.
Please don't think I'm looking for a bun fight here, I just think it would be worth garnering people's opinion. I'd really appreciate thoughts from those who moderate too
Sam
Funny how that volume was all due to the "lolly scramble" (and, as an aside, I've already seen a dozen or more Eskys on fleabay) yet the Esky couldn't touch a Bose Zulu, or one produced by your capable hands, in F&F or build quality. Yet the price creep continues to approach customs (and is already up to a point that could be proclaimed "mid-tech" if such a thing actually existed in the world of traditionals).
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While growing up on a ranch in a time while shitting in my diapers. "Wonderful period"
We use to wait for high noon.
Paul Harvey would come on
He was famous for "The rest of the story"
Back in those days
Honor
Respect
Integrity
Was something we were all raised with. Man today we got people wanting take a guns away.
Those knives will be collector items.
That is a fact!
Erik, it can also affect collectors. I like to get the tube, etc. for my GEC knives and boxes for other companies because it is a way of protecting the knives I purchase. When you consider that most GEC knives are carbon steel a good long term method of protection is important - to me.
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Addendum
Much respect
You ever want a modified wharni. That what the Zulu was called in the 70's let me have a chance to produce you one.
Best regards
Ricky Bob Menefee
Some USA knife companies are creating scarcity, and buyer demand, by limiting production and inventory. I don't buy those items from them, but respect their practices, if that's what it takes to keep the business viable. Having all of your profits tied up in old slow moving inventory, is just a taxable liability. However, they have helped to spawn a new breed of flippers, who are just taking advantage of a legal opportunity.
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Believe me, I know exactly what happened with that run of knives. And I never implied or stated that it was GEC's fault. That was YOUR comment. The only ignorance here is yours. Nobody else has made any rude replies. All my comments have been totally polite.
FYI; Yesterday I saw a GEC Empty Tube for sale on the big auction site. And if you browse around over there you will see innumerable Case Knife boxes and especially Case Classic boxes. There is a big difference between simple flipping and outright fraud.
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