Flu outbreak....

How is Mexicos health system? Social medicine, isn't it? I think there is at least one other country that is leaning toward socialized medicine. I hope they don't end up in a similar plight down the road. Ahhhhh....that could never happen here, why am I worried, right?
 
How is Mexicos health system? Social medicine, isn't it? I think there is at least one other country that is leaning toward socialized medicine. I hope they don't end up in a similar plight down the road. Ahhhhh....that could never happen here, why am I worried, right?

Canada has socialized health care, and we don't have the problems of Mexico.
Of course, we're a first world country, with good sanitation, healthy food, and clean water.
 
Stabman, how do you like the system? If you had the choice, would you change it?

Just asking because I am sure I will be in a similar situation soon. We have the added dynamic of needing to cover millions of third world illegals mixed in with first world also, so I am not sure it is going to be apples to apples, but....
 
Stabman, how do you like the system? If you had the choice, would you change it?

Just asking because I am sure I will be in a similar situation soon. We have the added dynamic of needing to cover millions of third world illegals mixed in with first world also, so I am not sure it is going to be apples to apples, but....

I like the system, except for the way the previous Liberal government started cutting funding to it.
When the funding was kept at a good level, it worked even better. Hopefully we can get our present government to fund it properly again. We MIGHT manage it, as health care is one topic that many Canadians agree on.:thumbup:
We should boot out our Senators(appointed, not elected:grumpy:), and put the money saved from that into health care.:thumbup:
Heck, just the taxes from tobacco and alcohol should fund most of our health care system!(especially alcohol: Canadians drink quite a bit on average)
 
How is Mexicos health system? Social medicine, isn't it? I think there is at least one other country that is leaning toward socialized medicine. I hope they don't end up in a similar plight down the road. Ahhhhh....that could never happen here, why am I worried, right?

Social medicine has about as many forms as there are systems that have been labeled such. Just labelling it and being against it doesn't really do much-

Mexico's system, as I understand it, as the worst possible kind- the kind that is most often proposed by 'moderates' and fiscal conservatives in the US. It's a system that uses a minimum level of funding to try and provide basic health care to all, with a government mandated tax based second tier for those 'gainfully employed' (don't even ask how corrupt that is) and a third tier consisting of private insurance. If you want a national health care system to suck, that's the way to do it. It's *bad* for anyone who can't fork over cash for a surgery.
 
Koyote, I am sure there are many forms and didn't mean to "label" it.

Hence my mention of our current situation with illegals and I may as well throw in the "unemployed by choice".

I agree the tiered system is probably a recipe for corruption and disaster, but on the other side, making the hard working pay for the illegals and bums is probably not a good answer either. I am very interested, and aprehensive as to how we are going to handle this here, because I think we can all agree it is coming whether we like it or not.

As whacked as our current system is, I have to say I am not that concerned about the current flu outbreak, I would be a bit concerned about my health should I need a sensitive diagnostic procedure, oncology treatment, heart specialist, etc under most of the social systems I have heard about, including Canada. I am not sure that we would be so cutting edge under those conditions, but I am not saying they are bad.

I guess my thought is that if people around the world were given the choice of where to be treated during the current pandemic, they would probably choose the US, but I freely admit that might be a bit arrogant and incorrect on my part.
 
Oh, our system isn't completely broken! we have a good quality of care when it reaches people. We also have a large amount of profiteering and our own special type of corruption.

I live in an area with a huge illegal population, and I really don't see the problem int he same way many people do. With a very few exceptions that should be dealt with very harshly, the illegals here are here to work. They do crap jobs for the most part and get treated like crap doing them. And every attempt to improve the situation through legalization or ground level improvment of things (like basic health care or education) is met with very firm resistance by people who are led to believe that the illegals are all, or mostly, here to suck off the gummint teat. I just don't see that out here in agriculture land.*

The current flu case is a fair warning about what NOT to do to our health care system, but does have lessons on how more social infrastructure in our system could aid in tracking and control of virulent diseases. And much of our apparent increased resistance is... well, social- we have stringent water and sanitation standards, immunization mandates, and a fairly decent social preventative medicine system in our schools. Limited- eye and hearing checks, basic monitoring of nutrition and head lice and such- but it works for what it is.







*Note- one huge fight out here is over what the opponents have claimed is "giving unfair money directly to illegals for college" but is in fact a law that allows in state tuition charges for the children of illegals who have spent *THREE* years or more in IN-STATE high schools. Doesn't sound quite so nefarious when you say you are giving resident kiddos resident tuition rates, even if their parents are damp along the spine.
 
Yes, I agree, I don't look at all of the illegals as evil just because they are not citizens but giving them liscences and free healthcare is not fair, right or intelligent. If we are going to allow them to stay here, make them citizens and subject to all our laws and rights.

Anyway, probably have gone too far into the political side (apologies), so to bring it back on subject, I feel bad for those in Mexico suffering during this outbreak and hope they fare better as this thing progresses along with the rest of us around the globe. Probably going to get a bit worse before it gets better I'm afraid.
 
Social medicine has about as many forms as there are systems that have been labeled such. Just labelling it and being against it doesn't really do much-

Mexico's system, as I understand it, as the worst possible kind- the kind that is most often proposed by 'moderates' and fiscal conservatives in the US. It's a system that uses a minimum level of funding to try and provide basic health care to all, with a government mandated tax based second tier for those 'gainfully employed' (don't even ask how corrupt that is) and a third tier consisting of private insurance. If you want a national health care system to suck, that's the way to do it. It's *bad* for anyone who can't fork over cash for a surgery.

I'm not categorically opposed to the idea, but I am opposed to the reality of every implementation of the system I've seen.
 
Social medicine has about as many forms as there are systems that have been labeled such. Just labelling it and being against it doesn't really do much-

Mexico's system, as I understand it, as the worst possible kind- the kind that is most often proposed by 'moderates' and fiscal conservatives in the US. It's a system that uses a minimum level of funding to try and provide basic health care to all, with a government mandated tax based second tier for those 'gainfully employed' (don't even ask how corrupt that is) and a third tier consisting of private insurance. If you want a national health care system to suck, that's the way to do it. It's *bad* for anyone who can't fork over cash for a surgery.

I think being able to pay for surgery is terrible. :eek:

Maybe a discussion of healthcare frameworks is better left to another thread. I think its pretty involved.
 
The word from the Maine Center for Disease Control is for the populace to make preparations similar to an anticipated blizzard, ie; a few days food, potable water, etc. The focus is on getting people to stay put should they get ill rather than on prevention.
 
The WHO raised the threat level to phase 5 last night. Meaning they think a pandemic is now imminent.
 
The WHO raised the threat level to phase 5 last night. Meaning they think a pandemic is now imminent.

How many folks know the difference between epidemic and pandemic? Hint: they're not necessarily related. One is a mathematical function, the other regional. And epidemic is declared after a certain percentage point has been passed among the general population point, whereas a pandemic is declared after a certain number of otherwise unrelated geographical boundaries have been crossed. We have a pandemic of common flu every year, as it hits so many countries at once.

I am concerned that "pandemic" is being misused by the press to enhance the scare factor, when many, many illnesses become pandemics rapidly due to worldwide travel. It's not worse than an epidemic: the two terms are not interchangeable, technically.

I'd welcome anyone to clarify the differences better, as I'm doing this from memory!
 
Well..... I guess the scare is on.... I live in the worst possible location in Canada for this to hit..... Leamington, Ontario. We have a HUGE farming and greenhouse industry. The migrant workers come flooding in at this time of year, mostly from Mexico. And they already started arriving.

What's worse is that the schools just banned hand sanitizer and when I asked them what other precautions they were taking, they had no answer.

yeee hawww.....
 
Rick, what explanation did the schools give for prohibiting hand sanitizer?

All the best,

- Mike
 
How many folks know the difference between epidemic and pandemic? Hint: they're not necessarily related. One is a mathematical function, the other regional. And epidemic is declared after a certain percentage point has been passed among the general population point, whereas a pandemic is declared after a certain number of otherwise unrelated geographical boundaries have been crossed. We have a pandemic of common flu every year, as it hits so many countries at once.

I am concerned that "pandemic" is being misused by the press to enhance the scare factor, when many, many illnesses become pandemics rapidly due to worldwide travel. It's not worse than an epidemic: the two terms are not interchangeable, technically.

I'd welcome anyone to clarify the differences better, as I'm doing this from memory!

Good point. I've heard conflicting opinions on the definitions. The WHO seems to use pandemic simply to mean cases in more geographical regions (it says it on their website somewhere). Also, to cause a raise in the alert level, the infection must have been shown to spread between humans.

However I've also heard the term 'pandemic' used to mean a much higher than usual proportion of infected people, even in just a single area, with 'epidemic' meaning the usually expected number.

At the end of the day, words tend to mean different things to different people and in different contexts. At least the WHO clearly define what they mean by pandemic.

The press mostly don't have a clue and don't even care. In the UK it's just given the government something to take our minds off their incompetence and corruption, which up until a week ago was starting to become unavoidable news. Probably not much different in the USA I would guess.

Personally, I'm not very concerned at the moment. Symptoms seem no more severe than any seasonal flu. At the moment the pandemic is more of an inconvenience to business and trade than a threat to civilization as we know it.

I did do some checking up on the wearing of surgical masks, as I always thought they were more to stop infection spreading from the person wearing one, than to protect them from others' infections. I was correct, at least as far as virii are concerned.

N95 masks only stop particles down to about 0.3 micron. Great for spores and bacteria, not much use for virii. FFP3 masks are only a little better. They do stop you breathing in the aerosol spray from someone's cough or sneeze though.

Unless one is in a crowded environment with, or in close contact with, infected persons they don't actually do very much. They can even make it more likely to become infected if overused as they become damp and warm, possible catching and assisting the transmission of virii to the wearer!

Cleanliness and common sense seems far more important than wearing a face mask unless you have a specific need to.
 
Rick, what explanation did the schools give for prohibiting hand sanitizer?

All the best,

- Mike

Hmm... I hadn't heard that one. I could have a very good guess though:

They contain mainly alcohol, either ethyl or isopropyl. Ethanol is great fun in scotch but I would guess someone somewhere is worried about the kiddies licking it off their hands, or just putting their head under the pump Homer Simpson style!

Isopropanol is even more toxic, so again there could be concerns. Especially if the kiddies are told they can lick it off and get drunk.

That's all I can think of - I'll go and have a google I think...
 
Rick, what explanation did the schools give for prohibiting hand sanitizer?

All the best,

- Mike

Because of the alcohol in it. I guess there was a news feed where a child died from ingesting it and the school board complied with worried parents. they have alternative hand sanitizers without alcohol... but the people I spoke to had no idea what I was talking about.

Rick
 
Gotcha. I thought that would be the case. How unfortunate. If ever there was a place where hand sanitizer is needed, it is a modern school.

All the best,

- Mike
 
Because of the alcohol in it. I guess there was a news feed where a child died from ingesting it and the school board complied with worried parents.
Rick

I love the irony of a group of people that are usually dedicated to teaching Darwinism, but then try drastically to keep it from working! :D
 
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