In a bizarre twist of karma, the one single guy and only competent drinker in my workplace - me - had duty on New Year's Eve and thus, couldn't drink and carouse. (Don't cry for me - I did plenty of carousing the next day. A bit too much, in fact.) As a Gunner's Mate I get my fair share of firearms questions from the security personnel that I deal with. Usually I'm halfway correct. I really made of a fool out of myself this time.
"Hey, Guns," said one guy. "What do you think about that one round...err...5 point something millimeter FN..."
"5.7mm Fabrique Nationale? The SS190 round?" I said, trying to sound authoritative.
"Yeah. That one. What's the story?" he asked.
"They've got import restrictions on it. It's got to be cleared via the BATF. Law enforcement and military only. We'll never see it," I said, obviously still set in my pre-September ways.
"They're selling it at the Sportsman's Warehouse, dude," said the other one. "Everything changed, remember?"
Whoops.
The underlying concepts for the cartridge aren't new. The British came up with a bullet using an aluminum spacer to intentionally unbalance the bullet (and cause tumbling/fragmentation in flesh) back in their .303 days, if not before. Using a steel core for additional armor piercing capabilities dates back to at least WWI. Going with a small, light bullet to reduce recoil and relying on its velocity to cause harm was experimented with for the better part of the 20th century, was thoroughly investigated by the British just after WWII, and was made a household name in the '60's with the 5.56x45mm. (20 or so years after the British could've made it happen, but hey, that's the way it goes in NATO sometimes.
) FN kind of put it all together.
I'm not completely sold on the concept, but I have few doubts that it would make a better cartridge for NATO than the 9x19mm we're currently saddled with. I'll forgo the usual jokes about how the folks who invented it lost every time it counted. (The reasons for that are varied, but their choice of a pistol caliber didn't have much to do with it.) The important thing here is that others (the US included) had tested the cartridge when it was new and had passed on it. It was a decent cartridge but certainly not optimal. (Yes, I'm well aware that we did eventually adopt it, but I have my own theory as to how that happened and it has absolutely nothing to do with effectiveness.)
Personally, I think that NATO should be using the .40 S&W for a variety of reasons. (One of which is that some shooters' hands are too small to properly operate a weapon chambered in 10mm...otherwise, I'd recommend that.) 5.7mm would not be my first choice as a replacement but if I were to be told tomorrow that we were changing to it, I wouldn't be unhappy. I'd certainly like to hear some more stories about how it really performs. The only one I've seen to date involved Peru's use of suppressed P90's in a hostage rescue sometime back but the specifics were vague, if not nonexistant. Would they have done worse with 9mm? 5.56mm? Who knows?
Brantoken - I'm reading the same book. The only reason for this is because I paid $5.99 for it at the airport and if I buy a book, I will read it. Not disagreeing merely to disagree, but I'm unimpressed by it. Clancy on the whole disappoints me (mostly with his atrocious lack of accuracy) and his lackeys do little better. Take my opinions with a grain of salt - I'm very picky about books. The one Clancy book I would recommend is "Without Remorse," and that's simply because of the story - Clancy is still a hack and this book is good in spite of him, not because of him, but it's good nonetheless and a good book is a good book, regardless of who wrote it. The gripes with inaccuracy remain.
If you're talking about bullets tumbling through the air, you're right - no weapon that I know of was ever designed to do this, as the accuracy becomes atrocious. An interesting experiment is to fire the 62 grain SS109/M855 5.56mm ammunition through an M16A1 or equivalent with the slower twist barrel. In most cases, you'll see keyholing (and 10" groups...or worse) at 25 yards. If you're talking about tumbling through flesh, you're incorrect - when the ammunition is used as designed, in a 20" barrel, at targets closer than 300 meters or so, they begin to tumble and ultimately fragment explosively; were the bullet itself more durable it would tumble its way right on through. The reason no one sees this anymore on the battlefield is that the currently issued ammunition is 200 fps slower than the older stuff, is shot through a 14.5" barrel (which was originally intended for SMG distances and does fine there, but not beyond), and is routinely fired at distances the M16 wasn't designed for, let alone the M4, which is usually the case. I'm surprised that it works at all and I'm continually astonished by the reactions of people who really ought to know better when results are less than expected. One does not purchase an economy car, take it to the racetrack, and complain about losing. (Unless one is in charge of government aquisitions, evidently.)
45-70 - I thought that, too...but I guess things have changed. I'm already confused by it. The restriction, as I understand it, was on the ammo itself - the BATF classified it (rightfully so) as armor piercing ammunition in a pistol caliber. I wasn't aware that this restriction was going to be dropped. Or maybe the civilian ammo lacks the steel core? 7.62x25mm shreds soft body armor quite nicely, yet lacks a steel core and is not classified as AP. I'm missing something here.
As far was which weapons are concerned, the security guys seemed to think it was the Five-seveN they were looking at, but they don't always get the details right. I've got to look into that. My guess would be yes because of the odd length of the 5.7mm cartridge...it might not fit other frames.
Bruise - me too. Try the P90!
Cliff - was this with regards to performance on small game? I'm half tempted to buy one of the things just to see if it performs as advertised, but it would cut into my khuk fund.
(Pun intended.)
Maybe if they sell the old Tactical model...double action = dropped rounds at 50 yards for me. :barf:
YMMV, or take my opinions with a grain of salt - I've shot a lot of different weapons but I've never shot a Five-seveN or a P90.
