FN 5.7 Hertsel

actually a civi version in Semi only is coming out in about 1/2 yr. of the P90 sub gun and will retail for around $1400.00 Certain dealers are already taking orders :-) Im still not sold on the concept myself either (diehard .40 and .45 guy) BUT keeping an open mind.
Loandr.

http://www.impactguns.com/store/FNPS90.html

* I APOLOGIZE in advance for posting link BUT thought it might help some guys out!
 
BruiseLeee said:
It was good and an enjoyable play. The graphics were very well done and the story was good. None of that Xen stuff like in the first HL. I probably would have got it just to play CS:S even if it sucked.
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I still haven't beaten it. Sounds like a job for the weekend.

The zombie level is teh uber!!!1!!1! Worth the price of admission alone. I could reply that one a hundred times and not be bored.
 
Some feedback on the weapon from a slightly cynical, but well-informed armourer friend of mine:

...This is apparently a conception of a pending semi-auto
version of the FN FiveSeven subgun. The short 5.7mm
round is fed through a clear plastic magazine(visible along
the top of the depicted weapon) - the suppressor-looking
cylinder on the barrel is undoubtedly a dummy to mask
the extra barrel length needed for US legality.

The original, full-auto variant first got use(& notoriety)in the
Lima, Peru embassy takeover a few years back - - after a
loong standoff/siege, Peruvian SpecOps units stormed the place.
They sang the praises of the thing afterward. However, reports
indicate that the entry(as opposed to perimeter)units had an
engagement distance of 5 to 10 *feet*, and the Peruvians tended
to use long full-auto bursts... ...so, you soak an 8- to
15-round
burst into the other guys head at little over card table distance,
and he goes down. Yer point is?? Not an indictment of the thing
and its odd tiny round, but no big proof of its effectiveness either.

Dunno, but I trust his opinion.
 
Out of a pistol, a 9mm is a minimum for defense, or a 38 +p+, with about 350-400 ft.-lbs as a preferred power floor.
I'd like a more powerfull load outdoors.
I would hesitate to hunt deer with a 357 mag out of a revolver, but I know that people do it.
Out of a carbine, it is another story, and the 357mag gets about 1200 ft.-lbs of energy.
I would not hunt deer with a 9mm for sport.
I would not hunt deer with a 22mag.
A 270 is better for bigger deer.
Either 24 or 25 cal would be much better out of rifles than the 223.
Personally, I would not want to hunt deer with a 223, and would you want to face a runt black bear wth one?

I see a 243W as a minimum for deer, and deer do not shoot back!
Deer do not carry Khukuris!
Deer do not carry Sirupatis or AKs (either kind of AK)!
 
arty said:
I'd like a more powerfull load outdoors.

I would not hunt deer with a 22mag.
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All in all there's probably been more deer killed with a regular plain old .22 long rifle rimfire* and a flashlight than any other gun.
It was the favorite of poachers in Colorado and Oregon and probably still is just because it works.;)

*With the exception perhaps of the old standard stand by, the 30-30 Winchester.:)
 
I have read of elephants being killed with a 22 rimfire throught the ear canal into the brain.
I still would rather have a legal weapon for deer, and that usually starts with 24 cal. (shotguns in IL)
For any defensive firearm, I would want enough power. Most handguns are underpowered, and from hearing first hand accounts by doctors, will not necessarily stop immediately.

I own a couple of 22 handguns, but would not want to use them for defense, if better choices were available. I own a 22 mag carbine, but would rather have a larger caliber for any game larger than a coyote.
22s sure kill the paper targets better than anything else.
For stuff that shoots back, I'd rather have a 357 revolver in a handgun - or a 9mm.

I haven't found a handgun in 45acp that I can shoot as well as a Browning 9 or a Ruger 9, but perhaps I should look at the 40s.
I can't shoot any of the autos as well as a revolver.

The 223 was designed as a military version of the 222. That was a varmint round, and not a deer round. Auto fire is the reason for use of the 223 in the military. It wasn't selected for effectiveness at long range - a 308 is much better for that!


A 24 cal. "short" might be a better choice for a defensive rifle, but I can't see the logic of a 22 cal defensive pistol, if there are better options.
 
arty said:
Auto fire is the reason for use of the 223 in the military. It wasn't selected for effectiveness at long range - a 308 is much better for that!
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That's one reason. Another biggee, and one that's not always evident, is weight. The heaviest component of a cartridge, by far, is the bullet itself. 62 grains for 5.56mm, 147 grains for 7.62mm - there's going to be a difference here. One won't notice it much if we're only talking a magazine or two, but as the amounts rise, it becomes very noticeable.

I don't personally find the 7.62mm's recoil objectionable over short periods of time but it does get tiring after hours of shooting. Proper form is important for this - improper form is a recipe for a fat lip. New shooters occasionally slip up, get kicked, and wind up with a flinch that takes forever to cure...yet another reason why the militaries of the world reduced calibers - it makes training easier. A shooter can be quite sloppy with 5.56mm and still shoot accurately.

As a bit of a joke, I once shot the Navy's afloat qual course with an M16A3 one-handed. I don't believe I'd be able to do this with an M14, or even an FAL, and have no plans to try regardless. ;)
 
I always found the recoil and blast of the military loads in 308 objectionable, but that was because I was shooting the gun off of the bench (HK).

Personally, I like a 270, but think that a 6mm caliber makes a lot of sense for a military load. You could use a light bullet, and it would have much better down -range performance.

There is less blast and recoil with a 243, and much better long range effectiveness - especially with a 70-90 grain bullet.

There are 6mm short rounds derived from 22 cal brass - and they work fine on deer. The 6mm short would be a great military round - it was tried years ago, but used the Mauser brass (57mm). That was a long cartridge and heavier than it needed to be.
 
I believe this would be a great firearm if we could get it in full auto, short-bl configuration. Even semi might work okay for home defense if the HP works okay, but I'd still want a short barrel, and practice 2-3 round fire strings.

John
 
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