Folder design with best lateral/prying strength

Discussion in 'General Knife Discussion' started by Thereisnocowlevel, Dec 22, 2019.

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  1. Thereisnocowlevel

    Thereisnocowlevel

    29
    Nov 7, 2018
    What design elements would enhance a folder’s lateral/prying strength? There are many discussions on subjecting the current lock designs to tremendous vertical force, but the manufacturers shy away from testing/demonstrating lateral strength. Oh yea sure when it comes fixed blades let’s pry the tips, step on the handle etc. but when it comes to folders it is always a sensitive subject. Why not challenge themselves in designing a folder that’s strong both vertically and laterally
     
    DocJD likes this.
  2. kreole

    kreole

    Jul 23, 2009
    Solid pivot like the Zt300 series is a big one
     
  3. craytab

    craytab Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 26, 2012
    A full tang.
     
    d762nato, palonej, Bigfattyt and 9 others like this.
  4. Shorttime

    Shorttime

    Oct 16, 2011
    I see what you did with your user name, there. Very nice.

    Welcome, by the way. Brace yourself for an impending snark storm. These kinds of questions are perilous waters.
     
    insta9ves likes this.
  5. Thereisnocowlevel

    Thereisnocowlevel

    29
    Nov 7, 2018
    Haha thank you! I joined last year to look at cool edc photos but this question is bugging me to no end! So I had to post and yes I am bracing for no prying on folders.

    And to that I say why not? We pry more (accidentally) in day to day tasks than we exert strong vertical force.
     
    insta9ves likes this.
  6. Shorttime

    Shorttime

    Oct 16, 2011
    I'm not at all qualified to answer this question, but this is the internet, which means I'm going to give it a shot.

    Something with steel handle slabs, and a big pivot pin.

    Most knives are put together pretty much the same, except for the locking mechanisms. But in the case of side-to-side forces, the lock is just along for the ride.

    Off the top of my head, the Wild Steer WX is probably better than most, and I like this guy's review style. Just be aware of the cussing.



    As far as I know, he's not a paying member here, and as far as I know, he's not paying me to shill for him. I pulled up a Youtube tab, this was the first video in the queue, and it does a good job of showcasing the knife.
     
    orangejoe35 likes this.
  7. Thereisnocowlevel

    Thereisnocowlevel

    29
    Nov 7, 2018
    Oh wow I am not sure what to say haha, I’m not sure if I’m more confused by the French or the tactical elven sword at the end.

    About the pivot, does it provide lateral bracing other than holding the scales together a bit better?

    The end of the folding blade is essentially trying to pry the scales apart. I would think given the length of the blade and how short the length resides in between the scales for the lock mechanism it would exert an enormous amount of prying force on the liner/scales.
     
  8. craytab

    craytab Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 26, 2012
    Care to explain? And who is this we?
     
    marcinek likes this.
  9. lieferung

    lieferung Basic Member Basic Member

    May 24, 2016
    It's a dumb engineering problem to try and solve, that's why nobody talks about it. You should pry with a solid body, you don't pry with moving parts that are ill-suited for prying. And while you certainly can pry with a fixed blade you definitely risk snapping it, bending it, or damaging your edge.
     
  10. Thereisnocowlevel

    Thereisnocowlevel

    29
    Nov 7, 2018
    I feel like we are conditioned not to tackle this issue. Of course a knife is not going to pry as well as a pry bar, but that doesn’t mean we shy away from designing a sturdier knife.

    There are day to day tasks that sometimes you just don’t have the right tools handy that you would need to use your edc knife to pry. Well for example removing staples.

    It’s pointless touting strongest frame or triad lock able to withstand hundreds of pounds and not be able to tackle simple prying tasks.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2019
    marrenmiller and insta9ves like this.
  11. Shorttime

    Shorttime

    Oct 16, 2011
    Yeah, that was sort of my reasoning. The lockbar and side locking arrangement make it more skookum for resisting lateral force.

    The sword at the end is from Zombie Tools. They seem like they've got good process, but then they paint over everything with a thick layer of Zurmbee Killaz, which is aimed at a demographic that probably doesn't spend much time on Bladeforums.
     
  12. lieferung

    lieferung Basic Member Basic Member

    May 24, 2016
    Tackle this [non]issue if you want but there is already an easy and practical solution to it.
     
    marcinek, benchwarmer380 and craytab like this.
  13. Steely_Gunz

    Steely_Gunz Got the Khukuri fevah Moderator

    May 9, 2002
    I dont think its addressed because no matter how tight the tolerances of a folding knife are, they still have to move, thus there will be play.

    I would say that we have to be honest with ourselves as what kind of prying we need to do with a folder. I think any solidly built folder with durable slabs for a grip will handle the lateral stresses need for prying open a cardboard box or some such daily task.

    Truth be told, I dont even like prying with my fixed blades beyond duties as that are well below their mechanical thresholds, like busting open a rotten log or prying apart bones and joints when cooking. If I need to hardcore pry on something, I get one of half a dozen pry bars that i own.

    I dont fault anyone for wanting to make a ridiculously solid folder that is vertical/lateral tight as a drum for academic purposes, but I see it as more of fixing a problem that most dont find exist.
     
  14. Thereisnocowlevel

    Thereisnocowlevel

    29
    Nov 7, 2018
    To lieferung that is using a fixed blade?
     
  15. marcinek

    marcinek Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 9, 2007
    The right tool.
     
    Bigfattyt, Edgeoflife and craytab like this.
  16. marcinek

    marcinek Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 9, 2007
    The screwdriver blade on a SAK.

    Next problem.
     
  17. craytab

    craytab Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 26, 2012
    Use it all the time.
     
    marcinek likes this.
  18. Thereisnocowlevel

    Thereisnocowlevel

    29
    Nov 7, 2018

    The issue does exist because manufacturers are marketing folder locks that are able to withstand hundreds of pounds of force, vertically. And then they go about touting that their design is hardest working toughest knife. There are numerous discussions regards to who has the strongest lock in a folder. I’m taking a jab at both value and premium blades doing this marketing. We the consumers drink this up. I would say given how much marketing and discussion that the strength of the lock is definitely important. To me it is pointless if the folder is only strong in one direction.

    No it’s not as strong as a pry bar, but it is not a hard working folder if you tout hundreds of points of vertical force but is compromised with light day to day prying tasks, like removing a stapler

    To those mentioning SAK, a SAK is a folder...focus on the lock/frame construction not blade geometry
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2019
    insta9ves likes this.
  19. Shorttime

    Shorttime

    Oct 16, 2011
    I think it's more of a marketing problem: a company could get a few more buyers if they can "prove" their knives are 200% more resistant to lateral force than anybody else's (because there isn't any reliable test data).

    Continuing with the theme of re-framing questions, why not ask "how much cutting performance are you willing to compromise for lateral stability?"
     
    Edgeoflife likes this.
  20. marcinek

    marcinek Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 9, 2007
    Coincidentally this is exactly the same thing I thought when I read your OP.

    A blade not closing on your fingers is critical design element of a folder. Prying ability isnt.

    Touting lock strength and not prying ability is like touting lock strength and not touting aerodynamics.
     
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