Folder design with best lateral/prying strength

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Thereisnocowlevel

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What design elements would enhance a folder’s lateral/prying strength? There are many discussions on subjecting the current lock designs to tremendous vertical force, but the manufacturers shy away from testing/demonstrating lateral strength. Oh yea sure when it comes fixed blades let’s pry the tips, step on the handle etc. but when it comes to folders it is always a sensitive subject. Why not challenge themselves in designing a folder that’s strong both vertically and laterally
 
I see what you did with your user name, there. Very nice.

Welcome, by the way. Brace yourself for an impending snark storm. These kinds of questions are perilous waters.
 
Haha thank you! I joined last year to look at cool edc photos but this question is bugging me to no end! So I had to post and yes I am bracing for no prying on folders.

And to that I say why not? We pry more (accidentally) in day to day tasks than we exert strong vertical force.
 
I'm not at all qualified to answer this question, but this is the internet, which means I'm going to give it a shot.

Something with steel handle slabs, and a big pivot pin.

Most knives are put together pretty much the same, except for the locking mechanisms. But in the case of side-to-side forces, the lock is just along for the ride.

Off the top of my head, the Wild Steer WX is probably better than most, and I like this guy's review style. Just be aware of the cussing.


As far as I know, he's not a paying member here, and as far as I know, he's not paying me to shill for him. I pulled up a Youtube tab, this was the first video in the queue, and it does a good job of showcasing the knife.
 
Oh wow I am not sure what to say haha, I’m not sure if I’m more confused by the French or the tactical elven sword at the end.

About the pivot, does it provide lateral bracing other than holding the scales together a bit better?

The end of the folding blade is essentially trying to pry the scales apart. I would think given the length of the blade and how short the length resides in between the scales for the lock mechanism it would exert an enormous amount of prying force on the liner/scales.
 
It's a dumb engineering problem to try and solve, that's why nobody talks about it. You should pry with a solid body, you don't pry with moving parts that are ill-suited for prying. And while you certainly can pry with a fixed blade you definitely risk snapping it, bending it, or damaging your edge.
 
I feel like we are conditioned not to tackle this issue. Of course a knife is not going to pry as well as a pry bar, but that doesn’t mean we shy away from designing a sturdier knife.

There are day to day tasks that sometimes you just don’t have the right tools handy that you would need to use your edc knife to pry. Well for example removing staples.

It’s pointless touting strongest frame or triad lock able to withstand hundreds of pounds and not be able to tackle simple prying tasks.
 
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Thereisnocowlevel said:
Oh wow I am not sure what to say haha, I’m not sure if I’m more confused by the French or the tactical elven sword at the end.

About the pivot, does it provide lateral bracing other than holding the scales together a bit better?
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Yeah, that was sort of my reasoning. The lockbar and side locking arrangement make it more skookum for resisting lateral force.

The sword at the end is from Zombie Tools. They seem like they've got good process, but then they paint over everything with a thick layer of Zurmbee Killaz, which is aimed at a demographic that probably doesn't spend much time on Bladeforums.
 
Thereisnocowlevel said:
I feel like we are conditioned not to tackle this issue. Of course a knife is not going to pry as well as a pry bar, but that doesn’t mean we shy away from designing a sturdier knife.

There are day to day tasks that sometimes you just don’t have the right tools handy that you would need to use your edc knife to pry. Well for example removing staples.
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Tackle this [non]issue if you want but there is already an easy and practical solution to it.
 
I dont think its addressed because no matter how tight the tolerances of a folding knife are, they still have to move, thus there will be play.

I would say that we have to be honest with ourselves as what kind of prying we need to do with a folder. I think any solidly built folder with durable slabs for a grip will handle the lateral stresses need for prying open a cardboard box or some such daily task.

Truth be told, I dont even like prying with my fixed blades beyond duties as that are well below their mechanical thresholds, like busting open a rotten log or prying apart bones and joints when cooking. If I need to hardcore pry on something, I get one of half a dozen pry bars that i own.

I dont fault anyone for wanting to make a ridiculously solid folder that is vertical/lateral tight as a drum for academic purposes, but I see it as more of fixing a problem that most dont find exist.
 
Steely_Gunz said:
I dont think its addressed because no matter how tight the tolerances of a folding knife are, they still have to move, thus there will be play.

I would say that we have to be honest with ourselves as what kind of prying we need to do with a folder. I think any solidly built folder with durable slabs for a grip will handle the lateral stresses need for prying open a cardboard box or some such daily task.

Truth be told, I dont even like prying with my fixed blades beyond duties as that are well below their mechanical thresholds, like busting open a rotten log or prying apart bones and joints when cooking. If I need to hardcore pry on something, I get one of half a dozen pry bars that i own.

I dont fault anyone for wanting to make a ridiculously solid folder that is vertical/lateral tight as a drum for academic purposes, but I see it as more of fixing a problem that most dont find exist.
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The issue does exist because manufacturers are marketing folder locks that are able to withstand hundreds of pounds of force, vertically. And then they go about touting that their design is hardest working toughest knife. There are numerous discussions regards to who has the strongest lock in a folder. I’m taking a jab at both value and premium blades doing this marketing. We the consumers drink this up. I would say given how much marketing and discussion that the strength of the lock is definitely important. To me it is pointless if the folder is only strong in one direction.

No it’s not as strong as a pry bar, but it is not a hard working folder if you tout hundreds of points of vertical force but is compromised with light day to day prying tasks, like removing a stapler

To those mentioning SAK, a SAK is a folder...focus on the lock/frame construction not blade geometry
 
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lieferung said:
It's a dumb engineering problem to try and solve, that's why nobody talks about it. You should pry with a solid body, you don't pry with moving parts that are ill-suited for prying. And while you certainly can pry with a fixed blade you definitely risk snapping it, bending it, or damaging your edge.
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I think it's more of a marketing problem: a company could get a few more buyers if they can "prove" their knives are 200% more resistant to lateral force than anybody else's (because there isn't any reliable test data).

Continuing with the theme of re-framing questions, why not ask "how much cutting performance are you willing to compromise for lateral stability?"
 
Thereisnocowlevel said:
Oh wow I am not sure what to say haha,
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Coincidentally this is exactly the same thing I thought when I read your OP.

A blade not closing on your fingers is critical design element of a folder. Prying ability isnt.

Touting lock strength and not prying ability is like touting lock strength and not touting aerodynamics.
 
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