Folder design with best lateral/prying strength

Discussion in 'General Knife Discussion' started by Thereisnocowlevel, Dec 22, 2019.

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  1. Thereisnocowlevel


    Nov 7, 2018
    great examples of beefed up lateral strength designs!

    For cold steel particularly, I wouldn’t call it wrong tool for the job or using outside parameter. When they market the triad lock being able to withstand hundreds of pounds of force and challenge all other manufacturers. The average knife buyer doesn’t know it’s vertical force. In real life hard use which most manufacturers market for there is both vertical and lateral force.

    There are myriads of threads discussing lock strength but no one mentions lateral strength. Lateral strength is lock strength as well! Lateral strength is also blade play. And so imho it is very important to encourage designs that also focus on a folders ability to resist lateral force.

    Again this is not to rant on CS (they still have the strongest vertical strength lock) this is against all the manufacturers that tout their knives as hard use without addressing on lateral strength. And every time someone brings it up they just use the phrase don’t pry with it. Well when I stab, am I prying or am I exerting vertical force??
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2019
  2. DocJD


    Jan 29, 2016
    :) In the test of real world hard use , the thicker models of Cold Steel Tri-ad folders are rarely seen reported to fail in any way . So sufficient lateral strength seems to be already built in . Cold Steel understands that customers will "abuse" their knives and builds accordingly .

    CS already is much maligned for their proof tests , especially the comparison tests . Imagine the :poop:-storm if lateral lock testing was added in ! Guys hate seeing their uber expensive knives get trashed by CS . :p
    insta9ves likes this.
  3. archieblue


    Mar 19, 2001
    It would be which ever knife has the most contact area in the circumference of the pivot. And then very sturdy hardware sandwiching the whole thing together. So the requirement would be to have the most “meat” in the tang/pivot and then either have very wide washers or no washers. This is one of the reasons I dislike bearing pivots. They have very little surface area. It’s good for the Nick Shabazzes of the knife world but not good for down and dirty harder use. IMO the best in this field would be the CRK Inkosi.
    insta9ves likes this.
  4. Thereisnocowlevel


    Nov 7, 2018
    triad and a laterally beefed up design and then challenge everyone! Come on CS you have an opportunity here!

    I think might need to think outside box like the rolled scale ram lock or the hinderer stop pins. A thicker blade will mostly only resist tip breakage but doesn’t address the lateral force prying the scales/liner apart at the pivot. This is a bit tongue and cheek but a folding full tang would work but it defeats the purpose of having a folder. Basically think outside the box ...anything that takes the prying force off the liner/scales at the pivot

    Hmm you mentioned wide washers how would that work? Distribute the force at the tang?
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2019
  5. Steely_Gunz

    Steely_Gunz Got the Khukuri fevah Moderator

    May 9, 2002
    My family has owned a business for over 6 and a half decades. In all those years, neither my late grandfather, my dad and uncles, nor myself have ever appeared personally in any advertising. The reason: My old man has always said he never trusts the owner of a business hocking his wares. Of COURSE his is the best/highest value. He has the greatest to gain making sure you come buy his stuff.

    I dont trust marketing. Well, I mean I dont base my purchasing decisions on demos/ads/or other overly favorable pieces produced by the manufacturer. One of the great aspects of social media like YouTube is that the end user can filter out the overt misinformation and the shills and average out some reasonable data as to what a knife can handle. It's not perfect, but it's at least quasi empirical.
    Lance Leon and slyraven like this.
  6. Danke42


    Feb 10, 2015
    Is there a folding Jaegerstabber? That might do the job.
  7. Hickory n steel

    Hickory n steel Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 11, 2016
    Maybe if it was Heald together with a 1" nut and bolt and the handles were each 1" thick I'd consider prying a staple with it.
    Lesknife likes this.
  8. Thereisnocowlevel


    Nov 7, 2018
    You have been here much longer than I have...could you say many people have been lead to think that they could do tasks that apply lateral force by these marketing statements?
  9. Mikarta


    Oct 8, 2019
    Lance Leon likes this.
  10. Smiling


    Nov 21, 2019
    [QUOTE="Thereisnocowlevel, post: 19450916, member: 506789" Why not challenge themselves in designing a folder that’s strong both vertically and laterally [/QUOTE]

    Because majority of people who need heawy use or hard work knife (including myself) will just get a fixed blade. Preferably full tang one.

    But I agree that manufacturers should try to step up their game on folders. Especially considering the prices of folders compared to the fixed blades...
    lieferung likes this.
  11. ErocSD

    ErocSD Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 21, 2019
    I think the RHK XM18 Spanto was designed specifically for prying. I havent tried it and I dont pry with my folders.

    Edit: from RHK website:
    "The XM Series CNC flat ground Spanto blade is the best of both worlds offering maximum cutting potential in a blade that has a durable tip for prying; retaining its thickness right out to the tip."
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2019
  12. GermanyChris


    Feb 18, 2015
    Is probably be more inclined to do hard prying with my AD10 than I would with my XM24.
    DocJD likes this.
  13. not2sharp

    not2sharp Gold Member Gold Member

    Jun 29, 1999
    I would be more concerned about the blade than the pivot. If the apex of the edge fails it might snap the entire blade. Knives are the wrong tools for lateral prying.

    Perhaps you should consider a multitool.

    Lesknife and DavidZ like this.
  14. Lesknife

    Lesknife Platinum Member Platinum Member

    Mar 31, 2018
    I cut and slice with my folding knives.

    I have had dozens and more folders over the last 50 years of different makes, models and types. Only a few cheap imports that were given to me from salesmen that failed and for good reason; poor design with inferior materials which I was suspect of upon receiving.

    Of the many USA name brand knives I’ve had none have failed and certainly not the pivot or locks , they are as solid and functional as when I bought them. I don’t baby them but I don’t abuse them either. They perform just as intended as cutting edged tools. None of them claimed to be prying tools or hatchets. Only cutting tools. Except for my multi tools that have screw driver bits, saw blades, bottle and can openers, files and other minimalist tools which they are designed for.
  15. Mecha

    Mecha Titanium Bladesmith Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Dec 27, 2013
    Oh like a folder with fixed blade capabilities? :eek::D

    The best way to make a folding knife that can pry would be to use a solid one-piece handle frame with the channel machined out of it, and a huge pivot pin + large diameter washers, and ensure the tang of the blade extends well into the handle frame, and design the blade with minimal stress risers. The blade would probably break before such a knife's pivot assembly failed. Still dumb tho.
  16. Mecha

    Mecha Titanium Bladesmith Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Dec 27, 2013
    WValtakis likes this.
  17. Houlahound


    Aug 2, 2017
    lmao, I so resemble this statement.

    What about extending the two handle sides forward beyond the hinge so when the blade opens it slots into supports that are contoured to be max width at the hinge.
  18. craytab

    craytab Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 26, 2012
    I can see the ad copy now... "Lateral Strength: the latest thing you didn't know you needed in a folding knife! Watch us pry through this 500lb frozen pig and ridicule other knives that can't!"
  19. T.L.E. Sharp

    T.L.E. Sharp Oatmeal Pecan is better than Chocolate-chip. Platinum Member

    Jun 30, 2016
    Wire Strippers
    Screw drivers (with the occasional exception of a flat headed one)
    Flash drives
    Wire Snips
    Zip Ties
    Tape dispensers

    That's a partial list of tools, like my knife, that I use daily that also aren't meant for prying. If I suggested that a pair of wire strippers should be better made to handle lateral prying force I think most would think it was a ridiculous idea....

    Knives cut. Pry bars (and sometimes a flat head driver) pry.

    A note on using a flat head driver to pry: The continued use of slotted screws today can't be explained as anything more than a big "f*** you" to whomever might have to deal with that fastener later. As a form of non-violent protest to any engineer who continues to use said fasteners I choose to purposely abuse the corresponding tool.
  20. Danke42


    Feb 10, 2015
    Gentlemen, behold!

    ErocSD, Mecha, craytab and 1 other person like this.
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