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Folder Locking Mechanisms
- Thread starter d762nato
- Start date
And this is really it in a nutshell. The lock is there to help prevent accidents, it cannot prevent abuse or stupidity. If the strength of the lock is an issue at all, then a fixed blade knife is warranted for the job, even then, there are no guarantees against abuse or stupidity.
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I have taken apart a few ball bearing locks and a caged ball bearing lock and I don't see how the ball could roll anywhere and fail. As was mentioned maybe a prototype had a problem but I have not heard of it and don't see how it could happen with the current design.
My favorite is the AXIS lock, followed by caged BB lock, backlock, then compression lock. I have only fondled the knife I have with the compression lock and it doesn't seem as smooth and user friendly but should be strong so it's at the bottom of the list. I guess if I were to ever by a knife with a triad lock it would be above the backlock but below BB lock.
I have had too many problems with liner locks and have sworn them off. I might try the Gayle Bradley because of the blade but I'm not looking forward to the liner lock. I'm also not a big fan of the frame lock. They are just too easy to wear down and develop blade play. I had a Kershaw that I didn't use too much and went from early lock up to being able to slide a piece of paper between lock bar and blade tang. I don't like something that is going to wear out and potentially be dangerous and useless to me down the road. I did buy one (or two
) of the Lionsteel SR-1 monolithic titanium framelock. However, it has a replaceable lock bar tip which is hardened steel so it should not wear quickly and can be replaced if it does.
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Good catch, two of the SR-1 folders at early pricing is gonna be good investment.
I forgot the compression lock on my Ti ATR by Spyderco. Very nice too and very strong I expect.
Also not forgetting the Ram lock of Cold Steel Pocket Bushman but since it is liable to chop off ur fingers (when you are not careful) it is at the bottom of my list but better than liner locks.
Anyone got any news of the Toad lock (name may be slightly wrong) by the Hawk brothers?
I forgot the compression lock on my Ti ATR by Spyderco. Very nice too and very strong I expect.
Also not forgetting the Ram lock of Cold Steel Pocket Bushman but since it is liable to chop off ur fingers (when you are not careful) it is at the bottom of my list but better than liner locks.
Anyone got any news of the Toad lock (name may be slightly wrong) by the Hawk brothers?
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Strongest in my opinion would be: Axis, Lockback, Framelock, and compression (on the Spyderco S). Those are the only ones ive used so i cant give too much opinion but they are all very strong and i dont see them failing anytime 
Ankerson
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That's true, I would love to see other makers knives try and match that. :thumbup:
People can say what they want but right now Cold Steel has them all beat hands down, no contest with their Tri-Ad lock when it comes to pure strength of the lock.
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I got to find out more about that. That is the most strength you can expect!
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That's true, I would love to see other makers knives try and match that. :thumbup:
People can say what they want but right now Cold Steel has them all beat hands down, no contest with their Tri-Ad lock when it comes to pure strength of the lock.
Knowing how an AXIS and compression lock works they should be able to handle the same amount of abuse that knife was subjected to. You only have part of the story in that video. You won't see it from Spyderco or Benchmade because they have a marketing strategy that does not involve spandex, pigs, and bamboo.
Although Spyderco, and probably Benchmade, test their knives to destruction they do it behind closed doors and we won't ever be able to watch.I'm just joking around so no one get bent out of shape and turn this into a peeing contest.
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In addition to the stop pin the Tri-ad still has the pivoting pin in the lockbar. The Tri-ad lock under failure load the stop pin has to shear and the lockbar pivoting pin also have to shear in order for it to fully fail. I'm referring to the Tri-ad of course.
That basically means it is stronger than the Axis IMO
That basically means it is stronger than the Axis IMO
Ankerson
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Knowing how an AXIS and compression lock works they should be able to handle the same amount of abuse that knife was subjected to. You only have part of the story in that video. You won't see it from Spyderco or Benchmade because they have a marketing strategy that does not involve spandex, pigs, and bamboo.
I'm just joking around so no one get bent out of shape and turn this into a peeing contest.
They don't need all that, just hang about 500 + lbs off of them bad boys and see if they can take it.
And do it on video and put it out there for everyone to see.
I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that to happen though.
If they say they are strong they need to put it out there and prove it.
They can talk about it all day, but that doesn't mean a whole lot IMO.
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In addition to the stop pin the Tri-ad still has the pivoting pin in the lockbar. The Tri-ad lock under failure load the stop pin has to shear and the lockbar pivoting pin also have to shear in order for it to fully fail. I'm referring to the Tri-ad of course.
That basically means it is stronger than the Axis IMO
Yes but the pivot hole in the lock bar is oversized to allow for wear in. So without the stop pin there would be a lot of slop in the lockbar and I don't see that being strong and holding very much. It gets all it's strength from that stop pin which transfers forces to the liners. And it is not the only design to do that.
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Yup, you are correct but oversized hole does not mean it's totally out of the picture.
Assuming the load reaches a point it shears the stop pin. Basically means there is gonna be movement. At a point the sloppyness (if that's the word) will be reduced till ultimately it comes into play. The slop/gap/oversized aspect is only a few mm on the side opposite direction of the blade, that is the minimum movement required. Though not acting together from the start, the pivot pin in the lockbar serves as a backup stop pin IMO.
Reason I'm fairly confident of the strength contribution of the secondary pin which acts at a later stage of deflection under shearing load is because I designed and currently waiting for my patent of my locking mechanism (not knife related) which is very similar to this. Many testing done to confirm this.
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I don't know how the lock would actually act with the stop pin removed, I'm not sure anyone does.
But I would suspect that the extra 'slop' designed into the lockbar pivot hole would allow the blade to close some (15 deg?) past normal. I also suspect that the first time it is knocked around that the lockbar would jump out of it's recess and it would fail. But I guess if you have experience with something very similar then it's possible it wouldn't fail that easily. I still wouldn't trust it personally.
Regardless, you shouldn't be beating on a folding knife that hard anyways and if you are, you are talking a calculated risk that involves the removal of your fingers. I like my fingers so I would find something else long before that.
But I would suspect that the extra 'slop' designed into the lockbar pivot hole would allow the blade to close some (15 deg?) past normal. I also suspect that the first time it is knocked around that the lockbar would jump out of it's recess and it would fail. But I guess if you have experience with something very similar then it's possible it wouldn't fail that easily. I still wouldn't trust it personally.
Regardless, you shouldn't be beating on a folding knife that hard anyways and if you are, you are talking a calculated risk that involves the removal of your fingers. I like my fingers so I would find something else long before that.
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If the lock works its a great lock. Above all else the lock on any folding knife must do it's job. You can own the highest art beautiful piece of work in a knife you've ever seen in your life but if the lock does not support the blade as its supposed to its no better to you than an adjustable wrench that won't turn a nut!
I feel the best all around lock for reliability and strength is the lock back style folder followed very closely behind by a well done frame lock. If the axis lock had a lock for the button to secure it so its immobile I feel it would make this lock 100% better for reliability but as it is now I see too much potential for accidental release in some uses although its not quite as bad as the potential I see for a button lock being accidentally depressed.
Perhaps the old style lever locks like those used by Hubertus and Boker on many of their automatics are some of the most all around reliable and strong folder locks ever devised. Of course this all depends on how well the pin is designed, how deep it sinks into the blade and how big it is in diameter as well as what material it is made of but even a small pin of bronze that only engages part way in the blade is going to be quite good in this style of lock if its sufficient in diameter to make it very difficult to bend or shear. You can't really find much to fault these old style locks on the old autos though. I've seen some very old ones that still engage as good as any made today.
The Cold Steel Triad lock mentioned earlier, while being a lock back is indeed a very good one. These are some exciting locks in my opinion and they do work quite well offering equal balance of strength and reliability in a tough use inexpensive folder or a tough use high dollar one.
STR
I feel the best all around lock for reliability and strength is the lock back style folder followed very closely behind by a well done frame lock. If the axis lock had a lock for the button to secure it so its immobile I feel it would make this lock 100% better for reliability but as it is now I see too much potential for accidental release in some uses although its not quite as bad as the potential I see for a button lock being accidentally depressed.
Perhaps the old style lever locks like those used by Hubertus and Boker on many of their automatics are some of the most all around reliable and strong folder locks ever devised. Of course this all depends on how well the pin is designed, how deep it sinks into the blade and how big it is in diameter as well as what material it is made of but even a small pin of bronze that only engages part way in the blade is going to be quite good in this style of lock if its sufficient in diameter to make it very difficult to bend or shear. You can't really find much to fault these old style locks on the old autos though. I've seen some very old ones that still engage as good as any made today.
The Cold Steel Triad lock mentioned earlier, while being a lock back is indeed a very good one. These are some exciting locks in my opinion and they do work quite well offering equal balance of strength and reliability in a tough use inexpensive folder or a tough use high dollar one.
STR
Should be getting my custom Demko with the Tri-Ad Lock this coming week. Of course I am really excited to handle it and to see just how well the lock works. I had a Rajah II with the Tri-Ad Lock and can say that when that knife locked up, it was LOCKED up!!
When I first began thinking about this project, I had thought about having it done as a liner lock, thus the reason for the thick ( .100" ) titanium liners. The reason I kept the liners when I decided on using the Tri-Ad, I thought the extra metal would better stabilize the entire locking system. With the stop pin embedded into the thick ti liners, I figure it will be nearly impossible for the stop pin to shift causing a failure in the lock, and the same for the lockbar pivot pin.
When I first began thinking about this project, I had thought about having it done as a liner lock, thus the reason for the thick ( .100" ) titanium liners. The reason I kept the liners when I decided on using the Tri-Ad, I thought the extra metal would better stabilize the entire locking system. With the stop pin embedded into the thick ti liners, I figure it will be nearly impossible for the stop pin to shift causing a failure in the lock, and the same for the lockbar pivot pin.
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I fiddled with my Tri-ad lock folders when I am bored (quite often the case
) and from view the lock will still hold even with forward movement just that it'll be the edge of the "teeth" of the blade tang cutout doing the most contact. However real life under stressful loading it is uncertain how things will turn out. Area a bit small in that area though.Yeah no matter the confidence I have on a lock it's still not a fixed blade. I suppose I have in my case elevated the ability of a good lock to the point of forgetting this.
By the way, the Youtube vids of the Tri-ad I think shows the lock under high loads, during which the lock does not fail but the blade has movement. Meaning there is a gap in between the stop pin with the blade. I can foresee the stop pin kicking in at some point when the stop pin has deformed to an extent.
cutter17, you gotta post some pictures (and in many angles and details and grips and etc etc!) of that custom
I like your custom order cause it has fatty liners and I believe some of his customs does not have liners. Though the liners may not be necessary for strength but I still like liners nonetheless. And titanium to boot!