Folding knife ”proper use”

[Peter Hartwig]

I had a nice looking folder once, I didn’t have anything else with me and had to do a fire ”unplanned”. Very light chopping broke the knife but at least I still got the fire started. Hoping XM-18 would have survived. Well, anyways, I’ll try to avoid that and rather use a fixed blade.

You can break almost any knife(fixed included) if you create the wrong forces through bad technique. I wouldn't baton a folder unless I was in dire circumstances and even then I doubt I would want to risk loosing my only knife. If you do baton-break the folder, so you are using just the blade rather than and handle.

The XM is a very robust folder and will take a lot of abuse, but it still has it's limits
I don't think Rick never liked me bringing this up on his forum, but he used to throw them

 

[22-rimfire]

If you baton a folder, I think you accept the consequences of your action regardless of how it turns out for the knife. Same goes with heavy prying. This applies to a $20 knife the same as a $1000 knife.

 

[Peter Hartwig]

Warranties are there to take care of defects that are overlooked. They are not there as a ticket to beating the hell our of your knife and expecting the manufacturer or maker to fix it or replace it on the chance you break it. If you break a knife using it "improperly", be responsible and accept that you made a mistake and buy a new knife.

Just remember "improper use" goes both ways..... manufacturer and owner/user. It is meant to be subjective.

For the most part you are correct, but each manufacturer writes their own warranty policy and they do vary in terms and conditions. Some do have we cover anything policies, unfortunately there is always someone that takes that to extremes and abuses the policy, usually resulting in it becoming more restrictive.

 

[masu]

Warranties are there to take care of defects that are overlooked. They are not there as a ticket to beating the hell our of your knife and expecting the manufacturer or maker to fix it on the chance you break it. If you break a knife using it "improperly", be responsible and accept that you made a mistake and buy a new knife.

Yes, the whole idea was to discuss what is proper and what improper. I don’t even have the Hinderer yet, it arrives tomorrow. My experience with folding knives is limited to the one that I broke and to me it did break quite easily. The knife in the video above can take a serious beating so you can expect the XM-18 to be quite durable.

 

[User27]

Aww man I came here a little too late.Vininull is a good channel if you like seeing destruction tests..Even though fixed blades are tough compared to folders they aren't indestructible either.
Here's another channel for ya,Knifetestnoss.

And if you like to see how long a blade will hold an edge I'd recommend checking out Cedric & Ada's channel.

 

[22-rimfire]

Yes, the whole idea was to discuss what is proper and what improper. I don’t even have the Hinderer yet, it arrives tomorrow. My experience with folding knives is limited to the one that I broke and to me it did break quite easily. The knife in the video above can take a serious beating so you can expect the XM-18 to be quite durable.

Proper use = cutting stuff. (And the "stuff" has to be softer than the knife steel.) Just about everything else, you're on your own. I generally don't care about warranties unless the knife just falls apart or the blade breaks when I'm trying to cut something. If I pop a switch plate off the wall (light prying) or use my knife for anything other than cutting and I break the blade, I'm going to kick myself in the butt for being lazy and not grabbing a proper tool. I'm not going to baton with a folder for fun. It would have to be an emergency. I accept the consequences whatever they might be. Same goes with a fixed blade.... there is a proper technique involved and if somehow I break a blade, I kick myself in the butt and go on.

I have beat the hell out of fixed blades splitting wood for the fun of it. Never broke a knife yet. This is using a mini-sledge hammer, logs that require two hands to swing, rocks etc. Even a Mora will take a tremendous amount of abuse as long as you aren't applying lateral force.

 

[Peter Hartwig]

Comment by Rick
Background OP used his XM-18 to baton a shelf board-trim to fit. Pete moderator.
"Pete was right!! I LOVE hearing stories of these XM-18's being used and I also enjoy seeing pictures of the knife with scratches and scuffs on them! It means all the time and hard work that I put into the design of the XM-18 is being realized by the owner! What a great post Dale! Thank you so much for sharing! Seeing this just made my day!!

"

And this where after batoning firewood the OP had a hard time opening his knife
"Guys I reopened this long enough to touch on this....ok batoning is beating on the back of he blade driving the blade through something right?...I've heard of this...let me tell you what happens to the knife when you do that....The problem isnt in the pivot bending..(my pivots are heat treated SS...The damage will be to the lock face...let me explain...The 6al4v titanium that the lock side is made of is softer than the steel that the blade is made of...when you pound a harder material against a softer material what happens? you got it the softer material gives..in this case it is mashed backwards and downwards on the lock..thereby giving the lockface a totally different shaped mating surface,causing quite possibly a sticky lock...
ALL linerlocks/framelocks will do this that use 6al4v as the lock face..its simple physics...These knives are built very tough and they will take alot of punishment...batoning will be the hardest thing you will do to the lock...ANY lock on ANY folding knife....can you do it..sure...but dont be surprised when you do this to any knife that it wont work the same as before you started hammering on it. We warrant our knives for normal wear and tear and alot of times go beyond that...but I think alot of people will agree that batoning is not normal wear and tear on a FOLDING knife...
As someone else posted here..if you are going to use your folder to split wood..unlock the blade first..that way you are not beating against the lock face..
I hope this helps

Rick Hinderer"

 

[masu]

^Great post! Thank you.

 

[steff27]

Why would Rick make the XM-18 blade 0.165" thick if all it should do is slicing? He sure knows that half the thickness would easily handle any slicing task much better.

That said, I would not plan to baton with any folding knife.

 

[DocJD]

he used to throw them

So do I ! But I DON'T expect any warranty coverage .

Throwing is amazingly hard on any knife , even fixed ones . The type really built for throwing don't work well as regular knives and vice versa.

 

[justjed]

Unless the knife is DESIGNED for throwing, I don't. The only time I would ever throw a knife not designed for it is to distract a bad guy long enough for me to draw a .45 and even up the odds, or tip them in my favor.

USE THE RIGHT TOOL FOR THE JOB!!!!

 

[Comeuppance]

I feel like if it's the kind of thing you think any reasonably-well-made folding knife should be able to do without breaking or sustaining structural damage, then it's proper use.

Anything that involves:
- using it as a surrogate for a non-cutting tool (screwdriver, prybar, wedge, bottle opener)
- using another tool on it (stick, hammer)
- exposure to caustic chemicals or extreme temperatures
- attempting make cuts that should really be approached with power tools

... is probably improper use.

 

[JC972]

I’ve been making fires since I was a very small child and I’ve never, not once, had to split wood to make an outdoor fire. All the years camping and having bonfires I’ve never once hammered a knife through a piece of wood to burn it. The thing is to start with tiny twigs and then a little bigger twigs and progressively move to bigger diameter firewood. The dead limbs towards the bottom of pine trees burn very good and are good to start with before going to bigger twigs. I take an axe camping to cut firewood to length. I don’t bother splitting any though.

 

[22-rimfire]

The only time I ever used a knife to split wood was for fun. If car camping, I will have plenty of cutting tools with me. I have sawed up a number of bigger logs that we hauled to a camp site to a usable lengths a time or two. I usually cut plenty and leave a pile of wood for the next guy. But again, this is mostly because I wanted to and not because I had to. The only time I can imagine needing to split wood with a knife is in a hiking emergency where most of the dead wood is very wet and of course the knife is the only cutting tool you have with you.

 

[Peter Hartwig]

I’ve been making fires since I was a very small child and I’ve never, not once, had to split wood to make an outdoor fire. All the years camping and having bonfires I’ve never once hammered a knife through a piece of wood to burn it. The thing is to start with tiny twigs and then a little bigger twigs and progressively move to bigger diameter firewood. The dead limbs towards the bottom of pine trees burn very good and are good to start with before going to bigger twigs. I take an axe camping to cut firewood to length. I don’t bother splitting any though.

I think this is true through a great part of the US , but that north west corner could be challenging. Things get pretty soggy up there.

 

[Lance Leon]

Thank you for all the answers. This is the kind of videos I was looking for:

Someone rich or well sponsored should make a standard test and put different folders through it. I bet it would be a popular channel .

I had a nice looking folder once, I didn’t have anything else with me and had to do a fire ”unplanned”. Very light chopping broke the knife but at least I still got the fire started. Hoping XM-18 would have survived. Well, anyways, I’ll try to avoid that and rather use a fixed blade.

That hurt to watch, to be honest. But I am surprised how well the knife stood up to that beating. I honestly have never seen anyone use (some might say abuse) a knife that hard, but then again I'm a city dweller. I wouldn't trust any folding knife to stand up to that kind use, if that's what you're looking for. But what do I know, most of my knives don't see anything more than very light scraping/prying (and that's on a really tough day).

 

[Dean51]

I'll sort of quote uncle timbo.
Proper use = Knives cut and slice. Period. Folding knives that can chop make y knives
If you need a chopper, get a chopper.
If you need a hatchet, get a hatchet.
If you need an axe, get an axe.
If you need a pry bar, get a pry bar.

 

[Velitrius]

I think this is true through a great part of the US , but that north west corner could be challenging. Things get pretty soggy up there.

Soggy indeed, Peter. But underneath your bigger evergreens is usually dry enough to find some decent tinder and smaller wood.

And in enough quantities that you won't have to baton anything. You want smaller wood? Gather up the smaller stuff.

That video of the ZT 550 was something else. I'm pretty hard on folders, but I don't come anywhere near that caliber of a beating.

I can't imagine referring to anything in that video as "proper use".

 

[DocJD]

Soggy indeed, Peter. But underneath your bigger evergreens is usually dry enough to find some decent tinder and smaller wood.

And in enough quantities that you won't have to baton anything. You want smaller wood? Gather up the smaller stuff.

That video of the ZT 550 was something else. I'm pretty hard on folders, but I don't come anywhere near that caliber of a beating.

I can't imagine referring to anything in that video as "proper use".

In a true emergency , survival situation , whatever you have to do becomes "proper" , if it works !

Of course it's best to always have the appropriate equipment , but sometimes you gotta dance with just what ya brought to the party .

That's a big part of the interest in "hard use " folders and in videos that push them over the limits of normal usage .

 

[22-rimfire]

In a true emergency , survival situation , whatever you have to do becomes "proper" , if it works !

Of course it's best to always have the appropriate equipment , but sometimes you gotta dance with just what ya brought to the party .

That's a big part of the interest in "hard use " folders and in videos that push them over the limits of normal usage .

This be true. We're all preparing for that big event. But I have never really been in a survival situation yet (knock on wood). I have been certainly "lost" (let's call it "seriously disoriented") but Kephart said if you have your knapsack, you're never lost.