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Yep. I do have trouble comparing knives to knives, all right.
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Folding Pry-bars.
- Thread starter Lycosa
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Having fun? 
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Yep. I do have trouble comparing knives to knives, all right.
Ok, now that that you admitted it, let's be a little more generous next time we comment in a hard use folder thread.
bodog
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Then I guess companies should stop making really thick knives? There's only one reason why you'd make a knife really thick and that's exactly so that it can pry at least some stuff. That's their intended usage. It's not like a super thin knife where a guy tried to pry a 100 lb steel plate off the ground we're talking about, though some companies are honest and know that's what they make their knives for and will stand behind them. Other companies are a little less honest about what their knives are supposed to do, or at least don't want people actually using them for what they're actually designed for. For whatever it's worth, I think trying to pry something with a folder is kind of ridiculous, too. That's why I carry a thick fixed blade and a thin folder. That's just me though. I can't answer for why other people do what they do.
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IRL, I carry and use one of these:
and one of these for non-YOLO prying tasks in my day to day travels:
(approx 8" OAL)
No pry bar folder needed even if they are fun.
:thumbup:
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Thick folders have there place, I tend to like a folder in the middle of so obtuse cutting an apple is more like pounding a splitting wedge into frozen maple and paper thin. What kind of prying are you saying a folding knife should be able to do? how many times should it be able to pry heavily before taking damage?
No matter how thick the blade of a folder is still FOLDS which means it has several pieces that are subject to failure and wear from real prying.
The maker of the knife decides what its intended use is not you.. if you choose to use their tool outside of what the maker specifies kiss your warranty goodbye in most case.
I agree, with you though.. why make a 1/4" thick folder if not made to pry..right? It wont hold up to real prying, they know it so they void your warranty if you do it. Its a business and they are making good money the fool is the customer who bought into the marketing.
No matter how thick the blade of a folder is still FOLDS which means it has several pieces that are subject to failure and wear from real prying.
The maker of the knife decides what its intended use is not you.. if you choose to use their tool outside of what the maker specifies kiss your warranty goodbye in most case.
I agree, with you though.. why make a 1/4" thick folder if not made to pry..right? It wont hold up to real prying, they know it so they void your warranty if you do it. Its a business and they are making good money the fool is the customer who bought into the marketing.
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I like the crkt, what kind of sheath does it come with?
IRL, I carry and use one of these:
and one of these for non-YOLO prying tasks in my day to day travels:
(approx 8" OAL)
No pry bar folder needed even if they are fun.
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Here's the thing.
Someone who needs to pry regularly would not be carrying an overbuilt folder just to pry with. He won't even be carrying a thick fixed blade. He will be carrying a prying tool that's suitable for his prying needs.
Someone who carries an overbuilt folder carries for the possibility that an occasion may arise that it will be important to pry something. He won't be concerned about how the knife will stand up with repeated prying because he just has to get that prying done in that situation. It's also called being prepared. Whether that's ridiculous or not will depend upon the particular person.
Carrying a thick fixed blade for prying is without question, the better option when it comes to pure strength of the tool. The question comes up though, how often and what kind of prying do you need to do? I for one, can't abide carrying a thick fixed blade wherever I go(not that I carry an overbuilt folder a lot too) but sometimes a folder is just more convenient to bring when it's just for contingencies.
The argument against overbuilt folders seems to be that they're not just strong enough to do sustained prying work and you won't get an argument from me about that. Won't a crowbar be even better than a thick fixed blade if you need a tool for sustained prying work?
What about when you just MIGHT need something to pry with? Do you bring along a crowbar? Some people can't carry a fixed blade should they carry a crowbar just for the possibility that they might need something to pry with?
Why is it ridiculous to pry with a folder if it accomplishes what is important or even crucial to accomplish?
Overbuilt folder territory is when you can't have the right tool all the time with you but a possibility exists that it might become crucial to have a strong folding knife.
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If a we knew that then we'd be able to take the proper tool with us, wouldn't we?
An overbuilt folder is a strong all around tool. It might not cut as well but it still has a sharp edge. It might not handle consistently being abused but then again it might need to do whatever needs to be done one time. All things beign equal, it might even last longer with regular use compared to a less heavily built folding knife.
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Lol. Can't you imagine any? I must confess I cannot think of any prying job that couldn't wait or isn't amenable to a short walk back the Jeep in order to risk breaking a much cheaper tool.
If there is emergency prying to be done with an EDC folder, I must not be on the correct wavelength to pick up what situation that might be.
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I don't think its ridiculous to pry with a folder if you absolutely must. It is my opinion people have unrealistic expectations of folding knives because their blade is thick, as well as the marketing the companies put out.
A folding knife no matter how thick the blade is, is more than likely a one time heavy pry tool and it may not even hold up to that one time where someone actually needs to pry something with it, depending on what it is. People can spend their money anyway they choose I personally find it odd to buy an expensive knife with poor cutting geometry with the justification it can pry..because it is extremely limited in what it can pry and prying often voids the warranty.. so an expensive one time pry tool that sucks at prying and cutting?
Playing devils advocate here I see the multi purpose nature of thicker knives as they are capable of more than a fillet knife and I myself carry a zt0620 and an emerson iron dragon which have fairly thick stock compared to a delica but I'm not deceived into thinking they are capable of any heavy prying no matter what emerson or zt advertise.. things like #1 hard use knife.
Hell I lost my train of thought lol
A folding knife no matter how thick the blade is, is more than likely a one time heavy pry tool and it may not even hold up to that one time where someone actually needs to pry something with it, depending on what it is. People can spend their money anyway they choose I personally find it odd to buy an expensive knife with poor cutting geometry with the justification it can pry..because it is extremely limited in what it can pry and prying often voids the warranty.. so an expensive one time pry tool that sucks at prying and cutting?
Playing devils advocate here I see the multi purpose nature of thicker knives as they are capable of more than a fillet knife and I myself carry a zt0620 and an emerson iron dragon which have fairly thick stock compared to a delica but I'm not deceived into thinking they are capable of any heavy prying no matter what emerson or zt advertise.. things like #1 hard use knife.
Hell I lost my train of thought lol
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That is assuming that you have access to your jeep. There was this thread about a guy being locked out on his balcony.
Just because you can't imagine a use doesn't make it a limitation of the tool.
The point is that it might be the only tool you have. Is that so hard to imagine?
There was this video that kept getting posted where a ZT301 was used to pry apart planks of wood nailed together pretty tightly. It even survived prying apart some thick planks that were screwed together.
Overbuilt folders are not just about prying though. It's about strength. As I mentioned, it may cut poorly but it still cuts. What kind of cutting can you really do with a slicer that you can't do with a thick knife, say a ZT 301.
If you talk about cutting geometry, would a thick fixed blade cut better than a thick folder?
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Yeah when I replied earlier that was the situation I was imagining. This, to me, seems like a conversation about preparedness, not how you use your knife typically.
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I get what you are saying, and understand the logic as I myself tend to like more robust items. But if someone is relying on a folder for heavy prying I hope their life isn't on the line because the folder will likely fail and possibly injure the person and destroy the knife..I guess I think depending on a folder for prying is foolish because it
1 destroys the knife/ which if your only tool sucks
2 risks injury to the person
3 the person bought into the marketing of the knife rather than examining the knife and realizing it FOLDS and will be a POOR prying tool at best, and at worst injure them.
1 destroys the knife/ which if your only tool sucks
2 risks injury to the person
3 the person bought into the marketing of the knife rather than examining the knife and realizing it FOLDS and will be a POOR prying tool at best, and at worst injure them.
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In that scenario an individual was probably in their backyard doing some fun testing, thing is what if what you need to pry isn't two nailed together boards its something more heavy and there is some level of importance in the situation and the knife fails and causes injury?
Thinking of folding knives as prybars is the dangerous part... basically its a false sense of strength in the tool. If a guy actually used his knife to pry because he believed his 1/4inch thick blade would support his weight and the weight of example given car door, or something similar where loss of life is imminent than he is in danger because the tool MAY not accomplish the task and may prove to be a mistake for his flesh or the person he is attempting to help.
Thinking of folding knives as prybars is the dangerous part... basically its a false sense of strength in the tool. If a guy actually used his knife to pry because he believed his 1/4inch thick blade would support his weight and the weight of example given car door, or something similar where loss of life is imminent than he is in danger because the tool MAY not accomplish the task and may prove to be a mistake for his flesh or the person he is attempting to help.
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Trapped on the balcony? Lulz. I'm not buying a folder based on that happenstance. It's not my lack of imagination that provides the limitations on the ultimate utility of a thick folder, it's this irrefutable thang called odds, as in probability based mathematics.
By the line of thinking that says one must be prepared with a folding knife theoretically up for emergency single use catastrophically necessary prying, I should carry a portable lightning rod when hiking in summer. . .just in case of threatening thunderheads.
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IRL, I carry and use one of these:
That's called the "Spare Tool". It is apparently discontinued by CRKT. It looks "big", but it is only 2" long. So, I question the usefulness other than as a toy tool.