for the newbie maker starting out as well as the seasoned maker check it out

[Deweyknives]

Gone for a couple days 'n come home to this on page two!!!! That is not acceptable!!!!!!

 

[Robert_Phelps]

I think it should definately be stickied. Between this page and the $50 knife shop, I got started in knifemaking last year.

 

[GibsonFan]

Well, the poll has been up for a couple weeks now, with a pretty consistant ratio of about 99 to 1 in favor of making it a sticky, with no result ... so I reckon it's up to us to keep it near the top.

edit: this thread and others like it, and the links/info in them, are the reason I ponied up a few bucks for a basic membership here. Barely more than a magazine at the newsstand, and WAY more information. A bargain at twice the cost. :thumbup:

 

[David Wesner]

Yes, I agree ! There is way to much reference info here to let it slip away. Thanks Dan & all others who contributed

 

[Alan Molstad]

I dont believe in "Sticky" topics at all.

I think it's just a lame idea of the lazy.

Topics should have a lifespan.
A topic should start , haveing been started by a person who is interested in new views and new answers on a topic.
The topic should grow and be allowed to walk it's own path.
and most importantly, the topic should be allowed to die.

Im sick to death of people telling others to go back and read some posts that were writen months if not years ago, by people that have been long gone from the forum.

This is a 'MESSAGE FORUM" ..a message forum is not to be thought of as like a book. Here we should invite new posts, even if you have heard the same question before a ton of times.
Each poster should be respected enough to be given his or her own moment to write whats on their heart.

BECAUSE?,,,
Because they are not just reaching out for "information" they are really reaching out to others with the same interest...they really come to the forum looking for friends.

Stickys are more trouble than they are worth, they get in the way of the layout of the forum, and they dont help anyone anyway...
And they are used by some people to make new people feel bad for no reason.
And they are actually in the way more than they could ever help.

I remember at one forum I was a member of that had about 12 different "sticky" topics at the top of the listings....

I wrote to the forum Mod and asked whats the deal?
And I was told that on such-and-such topic there was some important information on page 4, and another topic had some good ideas on page 8 and another topic had some good points to make on page 7....etc,etc,etc,

Thats crazy talk if you ask me....

 

[knight_shadow]

I think that stickies can be over done on some forums. I also think that useful information that is acted about and used often is the reason for a sticky. I can see Alan Molstad point about it getting overloaded and overdone but the problem with the forum right now is that the search is so bugged you can not find anything without going through each page of posts till you luck up and find what you are looking for.

The key here is how much of the info on the thread is useful and given often. How often is the post checked for dead links or adding new ones? When I came to this forum I had alot of questions. I found the sticky and I found all my answers in one post ( will all that I needed so far anyway ).

Would you really want to spend your time answering the same question every 2 or 3 days ( due to the search being buggy ) or not answer and the person not getting any advice? Old advice is good advice as long as it still applies to what you are doing so even if the advice is old I think it should stay if it is sound advice.

 

[Alan Molstad]

Would you really want to spend your time answering the same question every 2 or 3 days ( due to the search being buggy ) or not answer and the person not getting any advice?

There is no reason that people must feel it's their 'job" to answer any posts....
As far as I know I would rather receive an answer from a person who has an interest in talking to me and getting to know me, rather than reading dead text.

This place in NOT A BOOK....this is a Message Forum.
There is a BIG difference!
.treating people as if they were in a library: "Shhh just read quietly", is not the reason for being part of a message forum. Thinking people only come to a message forum to get some "information" is in error.

people come here to have interactions with others who share a common interest.

When I ask a question here, Im looking to find people that have the same interest in whatever it is I have asked about...
This is likely because my original question is not really that connected to the real point of my post. Many times I might ask about a type of steel or a type of heat treatment because Im seeking a dialog in more depth on a wide variety of topics that may perhaps be connected to my original question, but not always...

The sticky idea is put forward by people that have forgotten the main purpose of a message forum, and the main reason a person would log-on to this site and post here.....

It's like, there is a difference between drinking a beer in my basement, and stopping in at my favorite haunt for a cold one....Why?...why go to a bar when the beer is just the same in my fridge?
The answer is that a person is seeking real interaction with others with similar interests when they step up to the bar.
.
Message forums are a place of "social interaction"...not just a information pez dispenser..

 

[knight_shadow]

It's like, there is a difference between drinking a beer in my basement, and stopping in at my favorite haunt for a cold one....Why?...why go to a bar when the beer is just the same in my fridge?
The answer is that a person is seeking real interaction with others with similar interests when they step up to the bar.
.
Message forums are a place of "social interaction"...not just a information pez dispenser..

Yes I agree that interaction is the key to a message board but without new members that understand the basics of what the message board is about you get very few posts and after a time death to a forum. Most forum I got to ( as an admin or a mod in some of them ) is based on topics we are all interested in. We don't mind answering questions when asked but answering the same ones get old. If we don't answer any questions ( because that is not what the forum is for ) then it may as well be an email list setup for only members of the known group to come to. Most forums is an outlet for groups of the same like to come to interact.

I came to this forum looking for information about the topic of knife making. Without that help and information I would have never signed up or been in this forum. A beginner has no real input to add to a forum until they understand the basics of the topic. Understanding the basics takes information. Without said information you have very few new members and a forum can slowly die. I give PC Tech support in a few forums I go to. The forum is based on computer tech and we all chat about the topic of computers. When someone has a question we answer that question ( the more people learn about a subject the more people involved in later subjects ).

I may be wrong here but even this forum section says as much. Here is what it says " Shop Talk - BladeSmith Questions and Answers ". If this is no longer going to be a forum to help new people then the forum section needs to be changed ( and alot of new members would most likely find another outlet ).

Now to the part that I quoted. If someone has never tried beer and they go to a bar and keep asking what is a good beer to drink and then ask alot of other basic questions two things will most likely happen. One you upset someone and they hit you. 2. You get ignored and you leave the bar. Both options end up turning people away from going to the bar and without new people the bar will close due to not enough activity.

 

[randydance062449]

I love sticky's!

 

[Alan Molstad]

Now to the part that I quoted. If someone has never tried beer and they go to a bar and keep asking what is a good beer to drink and then ask alot of other basic questions two things will most likely happen. .

You could get an answer from a person who is interested in answering the question...

The problem is that there are some people that feel that they "own" some topics,,,that only their views are correct, and that any question asked about "their" topic must be answered by them.

If you or I start to feel this way, sooner or later we will get so darn frustrated by always seeing the same questions being asked ,(and as we view such questions as up to us to always answer) , that you start to get snappy with new posters that only wanted to get to know others and find a way to begin posting too on stuff.

Or we may start to post in a needless personaly offensive manner in a misguided effort to control a whole topic, and cause a end to other's posts that disagree with our own..
It's as if we started to believe that our own view should be the last word on a topic and there could be no more disagreements after we have spoken.

But, this is a message forum, where we are supposed to invite people to feel free to ask any questions they want....

Who cares if some so-and-so is tired of answering that same question all the time?...He dont have to think it's his job to answer it this time then.

This would then alow someone who is perhaps not so easily fatigued room to take their turn and post an answer.

 

[Jared Stenoien]

I dont know about others, but usually when i'm trying to get an answer...it's because i'm trying to get an answer! if i happen to find someone else that is interested in the same thing, ok, but usually i really would rather come to a post like this and find the answer than bug other people. the problem with your statement "Who cares if some so-and-so is tired of answering that same question all the time?...He dont have to think it's his job to answer it this time then.

This would then alow someone who is perhaps not so easily fatigued room to take their turn and post an answer." is that then the people who dont know s**t about the topic are the ones answering and the people who didnt want to post in the first place end up having to chime in anyways to correct them

 

[jds009]

Dan, thanks for doing this, i plan on making my first one sometime this week, good job piling all this together!

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

Just a note to all you newer posters. IT WOULD BE REAL NICE IF YOUR PROFILE WAS FILLED OUT.
We know something about jsd009, mrstenoien, randydance062449 and a lot of others because they have done this.When someone asks a question it helps to know where his frame of reference is. When someone posts an answer or opinion, the same applies.
Stacy

 

[Dan Gray]

WHAT What? I'm having a mood now..

The sticky idea is put forward by people that have forgotten the main purpose of a message forum, and the main reason a person would log-on to this site and post here......

well you sure are entitled to your Opinion, as I am mine.. here I go..

do you have any idea the time in hours I've spent here on this forum as well as the other guys here that don't even have to be here, we don't get paid for this and I actually pay $50.00 a year to hear you as well as the new and the older makers..I did this to help save time as well as space
and you have the nerve to say "put forward by people that have forgotten" , tell me what I've forgotten Alan? or who are you pointing at? being my thread, my doing and my work to help the guys out from the mundane stuff,
I'd like to know..Is it me,,? the guys can ask the same stuff just the same, ask on...

same tune,

Who cares if some so-and-so is tired of answering that same question all the time?...He don't have to think it's his job to answer it this time then.
.

well, I for one don't think it's my JOB but I've done a whole lot of it..Who cares ?
look at the hits this thread got, and there's your answer...

explain to me edge packing...and tell me how many times you want to go over it.. to get the very same info over and over and over again, lets get new info to plug the data bases here with.. BTW again,, this is only my opinion mind you..
now I'm going to hear it again,,, oh you guys that are on top are thinkings your so good, or better than the others.. don't even go there..
it isn't true
I wouldn't have put the work into this thread or the knife making site
http://www.knivesby.com/knifemaking.html which BTW has been hit over
135,000 times.

if I didn't care about you turkeys...

 

[Dan Gray]

Dan, thanks for doing this, i plan on making my first one sometime this week, good job piling all this together!

piled is right cobbled would be my words for it though
you are wellcome for sure..

 

[Alan Molstad]

sooner or later we will get so darn frustrated by ....

Yes, you do run into some people on the internet that get very frustrated by disagreements.
Frustrated by the same questions that seem to be asked over and over, and by posts they have writen that seem to have not been given the credit they felt was due...

But, conversation is , or rather, "should", be something that we enjoy for the joy it brings others....and thereby to us too.

A conversation is like walking down a road with someone, and going a bit to this side, then going a bit to that side as you walk.

The danger some have in forums on the internet is that they get lost in their emotional feelings sometimes about some conversation topics.
. They begin to think that they own a particular conversation topic or a subject.
The moment you or I do that, the moment we may start to think that we own a conversation, we also may start to do things that "protect" our owned subject.

I just think thats not a great way to run a good message forum.

Yes, what Im talking about with ending the "Sticky" means that people will always come here and ask the same question...
But thats OK,,,different people can feel free to answer a question they have heard before, or they can be free to not answer this time...

This way the person asking the question always gets nothing but answers from people that are interested in the same topic as he is, and wish to talk about it in more depth.

Sometimes it's a bit painfull to watch a new forum member get put down and his young spirit quenched by a forum old-timer who is just fed up with people asking the normal entry-level questions.

My advice, would be to ditch the "sticky" idea, and allow normal conversations, and normal topics to come and go on their own.
And never allow ourselves to presume to be the sole owership of any topic.
Answering questions should be enjoyable,,,if it's not, then dont answer , dont feel led to believe that you have to answer every question as if answering fell to you alone as a burden, and allow someone else who is enjoying the question to answer the person.

This is how friendships start and grow strong...
I think the sticky concept gets in the way of this,,,

another thing I have noticed about all the forums Im a member of that use Stickys,,,,That many times the point of why the topic was turned into a sticky is lost on the very people it was aimed at.

like if the forum MOD felt that on page 1 or 2 of a topic there was some important information he would turn the topic into a Sticky...
however the topic is allowed to stay open, and it grows, and it grows,,,and soon being a normal conversation it has left the original topic of conversation and is now centered around something totally different than what the MOD turned it into a Sticky to save...

A topic on 'HEAT TREATMENTS' on page 1 and 2 , has turned into a topic about HOOTER GIRLS by page 23 ....
The new person turns to the latest page to read the most current posts, and thinks the topic is HOOTER GIRLS......

The intent of the MOD is lost in the normal life ofthe STICKY.....

 

[Dan Gray]

and soon being a normal conversation it has left the original topic of conversation and is now centered around something totally different ...

A topic on 'HEAT TREATMENTS' on page 1 and 2 , has turned into a topic about HOOTER GIRLS by page 23 ....
The new person turns to the latest page to read the most current posts, and thinks the topic is HOOTER GIRLS......

The intent of the MOD is lost in the normal life ofthe STICKY.....

touché
if you look real close you are off topic yourself...
you could start your own topic on your own thread...the mission of this thread is to help knife makers and keep it on top .. to the top :thumbup:

 

[Alan Molstad]

touché
if you look real close you are off topic yourself...
:

Topics should be like good conversations.
They dont go in a straight line, but rather the slide to one side of the road, then back to the other.

One guy says something that he thinks is important, this brings to mind another story to a different guy, and this new story leads to a 3rd guy remembering something else.

And so it goes.
Real good topics can travel all over the map as people not part of the first subject get interested in what other people start to talk about as times goes on.
This is just the way life is.

Attempting to control a conversation between two people is a hard thing to do without one of the people being told to shut-up.
AND, attempting to so control a conversation between an open-ended forum membership is never going to happen.
There are just too many people reading along with the flow of the chit-chat and thinking of their own interesting things that they too would like to toss into the mix.

This is why the concept of a "Sticky" is not going to work in real life.

Any normal topic that starts out with a subject like; "WHERE TO GET STEEL?" on pages 1 and 2, will change over time as normal conversations do.
By the time the MOD of the forum gets around to turning the topic into a "Sticky" on page 10 and 11 the topic has switched around to be one talking about "HOOTER GIRLS"....

There is nothing at all wrong with allowing a topic to grow and change in a normal manner.....Thats life after all...

Rather than doing the "Sticky" idea , (that does not work anyway) I think a better idea is for people that are interested in Highlighting a subject found in any topic, is for them to post on it .
Thats the way to do it...

Nothing fake about keeping a type of idea or subject listed first by really posting on it, and starting new topics about it, showing that there is interest in it,,,nothing wrong with doing that at all.

The most important thing is that you have not screwed up the natural lifetime of the topics.
Topics should be allowed to start, grow, and die by themselves.

Even this topic that is always getting bumped to the top, will sooner or later, be forgotten....as is normal for all topics as interest fades and other things of interest take their place at the top of a forum listings...

 

[Deweyknives]

This thread was not started as a 'topic', but obviously as links to GREAT INFORMATION and TUTORIALS. If it was left as a sticky,it would not have turned into an off topic arguememt!! I don't think that's hard to see.

THANK YOU DAN, for the amount of time and effort you freely poured into the links here.It started as a GREAT resource for all. I learn and try new stuff all the time and going here and clicking a link saves a lot of time normally spent sifting thru cyber-garbage!! It's a real SHAME that this has been taken down the road it's on!

Dan, I have your site in my favorites list and will seek these links there. Some of us ARE GREATFUL for your efforts!

 

[Jared Stenoien]

well alan, while I respect your opinion on this, It seems like the majority disagree with your take and I know I have gotten a LOT of use out of this sticky, I probably go to it at least once a month. So hopefully the majority rules in this case