- Joined
- Sep 28, 2005
- Messages
- 4,527
This message is partly for the "NIB=perfect knife only" crowd, and partly for me screaming against what I see dying in the forum I love:
While I understand your frustrations at not receiving exactly your expected perfect knife, honestly and without malice, people like you are why I really don't want to deal with the exchange much. By that I mean that we are on two separate end of the knife spectrum. No insult, but because of people that are worried about every little scratch and ding on their new knife (as is their right), every single knife seems to be turned into a Grail knife that has to be kept pristine and immaculate because it will go up in price. To me, becoming a commodity, and sadly no longer a knife.
To me a knife is made to cut, to be in the hand and to be used. Not every knife has to be used every day, but they all should be able to be pressed into appropriate service if needed. And not every knife deserves to be locked in a safe. I've seen people complaining to sellers about how the knife came from the factory, as if that is fault of the guy who bought it. On a $60, $70, $120 knife there will be small things wrong with it. At all prices there will be something wrong with it. It's a manufactured knife. I don't understand why so much reverence is placed on pristine examples of knives, outside of greed in most cases.
If you ask yourself why you care if the knife has a scratch, and the answer is- it hurts its value.- that is greed. You are allowed to think about profits, demand, retirement. It's your right. But I feel that it's become an epidemic that is destroying my hobby.
I'm just left wondering when knives stopped being knives, and fanaticism made everybody NEED THAT KNIFE BECAUSE ITS THE BEST THING EVER!!!!!!! WITH THE BEST STEELS AND HANDLE MATERIALS!!!! AND ITS NEVER GOING TO CUT ANYTHING BECAUSE SOME DAY IT WILL BE WORTH MORE MONEYYYYYY!!! BECAUSE I HAD TO HAVE IT TO SIT IN MY SAFE FOREVER BECAUSE ITS THE BEST!!!!!!!!! just like every other knife untouched in the safe...... How many Mule Team knives stay in the box never to be used as Mule Team comparisons, because they are worth too much to use- WHEN THAT WAS THE REASON THEY WERE MADE!!!!
I'd rather give away my knives on here than try and attempt a trade these days. The time on here for comaraderie, trading good knives to good people because of what the knives are, not the dollar behind them, seems to be disappearing in the general BF. Replaced by, how much can I get out of you without giving anything up. Or how little can I get this out of you so I can flip yours for more!!! My last five or six attempts at a trade were the same, they wanted a great knife, and offered me common, lower quality knives for it- and little of what I say I want, but all at a premium because they were NIB.
I've said it before on here. I don't care if your Delica is NIB- it doesn't make it worth more to me!!!!! I don't pay for fanaticism, and NIB (to me) has become a monster on its own, elevating prices through imitation. (If this knife is worth "x" more, then that must mean mine is proportionately more valuable too! Plus if everybody is looking at things with an eye loop- I better get myself on their level of criticism because that is how it's done here- look at ignorance toward PayPal gift in every thread "just because when I started I say everybody state gift or +3.5%- to me it's the same phenomenon with NIB and value and criticism).
I long for the days of knives being used for a bit and decided they weren't for me, and passed along on the exchange, offered to a friend because it fills a hole in his collection. Not just driven by profit and the greed for my own collection because the newest is out and it's like sharks to chum. Then we wonder why new members go from no knives to thousands spent in a couple of months just to catch up, and they don't have a clue how to even put an edge back on the knife they bought, not do they have equipment. They catch the fever and must have what everybody else must have.
When was the last time you looked at your latest "must have" and said- I really don't need it. Knowing that it will sell out/that you could profit off of it/sure deal? To let other knife aficionados get it at the real price? If your answer to that is "Well somebody else will just buy it and sell it for profit on the exchange, why shouldn't I?" Then to me you are the problem, maybe without knowing it, maybe fully knowing it. Knives can be a business, absolutely has to be!! But to be a good business you don't squeeze everything out of your customers as you can (that's a scum successful business), you take your fair share and give people value for their money- in my books. Bladeforums, to me, doesn't have to be the scum business, instead I find it needs to be more of a good business, where we are a community out for each other. Which for the most part we do
There are still places where knives are treated as knives, and it seems to me the camaraderie still exists, places like the traditional forum, the wilderness forums, the individual custom makers forums! We use knives, pass them on, and are generally only interested in price if you find a great deal in a flea market or antique store, not how much you fleeced somebody for your newest knife/latest sale. We cut our food, chop our firewood,whittle, and even put... GASP....scratches on a knife!
While I understand that collecting pristine everything will be around- and it should be around: to preserve our history, but as a knife society I think we need to stop and ask ourselves if everybody becoming more like Liu Kang is worth it. I think it's getting worse all of the time, with the microscopes looking for errors getting stronger, and the community feel disappearing due to greed and unneeded pack driven desire to get the perfect knife.
I've probably insulted some fine members here, but I hope not. This is just my observations about what I've seen in my time here, and changes in how people are transacting with each other. In the past a proposal to trade meant excitement to see which interesting knife would be offered, and how the parties could add or delete or change to make it work to add to the others collection. Now I'll offer you a $100 neck knife and $40 for your custom mammoth handled folder, not even similar quality for the knives where the handle scales alone would cost $70.... It's about wondering how you will try to be taken this time...... Not the excitement of dealing with another knife nut. There aren't many of us, we should look out for each other's interests, because they are our own!!
Some of you will understand what I mean, some won't care. But I hope everybody at least looks at their own actions on the exchange and decides if they think they are in line with what is good for the knife community that is Bladeforums and the larger world. And then makes their own choice on how to proceed. And maybe the next time that you are entering a transaction with somebody you will read his/her posts, get a feel for the person behind the screen name, see how they interact with the rest of the forum while/before dealing with them and treat them like a person- not just your next PayPal deposit. If you are a BNIB ONLY collector who only hangs out in the exchange- join the rest of us out here in the rest of the great forum!! See a new person going haywire buying new knives- send an email perhaps suggesting not buying so much and learning how to appreciate what is there. Enter a trade with a new person who might not know that 3°offset to the blade is unacceptable to your perfections, let it slide if truly out of ignorance or QC difference between newb and aficionado. See a newb wanting all of the new knives "we" get with stars in their cyber eyes, offer them a good deal on an older "new" knife you no longer use that is similar, or offer to give one to them.....
Or not. At least I've said my piece and done what I can to try and make change. And hey, if what I said resonates with you at all and you see a knife I have that you love, or you read about a knife I want that you have/have similar to, let's talk and become friends. User knives also carry the character of the previous owners to the new ones!!
Just my side of the "sellers should list the following 85 points that I've determined are important. And if you don't agree that they should all be 100% perfect then you should t collect or sell knives" attitude. Okay, maybe I came across a bit strong in the last example, but my point remains.
While I understand your frustrations at not receiving exactly your expected perfect knife, honestly and without malice, people like you are why I really don't want to deal with the exchange much. By that I mean that we are on two separate end of the knife spectrum. No insult, but because of people that are worried about every little scratch and ding on their new knife (as is their right), every single knife seems to be turned into a Grail knife that has to be kept pristine and immaculate because it will go up in price. To me, becoming a commodity, and sadly no longer a knife.
To me a knife is made to cut, to be in the hand and to be used. Not every knife has to be used every day, but they all should be able to be pressed into appropriate service if needed. And not every knife deserves to be locked in a safe. I've seen people complaining to sellers about how the knife came from the factory, as if that is fault of the guy who bought it. On a $60, $70, $120 knife there will be small things wrong with it. At all prices there will be something wrong with it. It's a manufactured knife. I don't understand why so much reverence is placed on pristine examples of knives, outside of greed in most cases.
If you ask yourself why you care if the knife has a scratch, and the answer is- it hurts its value.- that is greed. You are allowed to think about profits, demand, retirement. It's your right. But I feel that it's become an epidemic that is destroying my hobby.
I'm just left wondering when knives stopped being knives, and fanaticism made everybody NEED THAT KNIFE BECAUSE ITS THE BEST THING EVER!!!!!!! WITH THE BEST STEELS AND HANDLE MATERIALS!!!! AND ITS NEVER GOING TO CUT ANYTHING BECAUSE SOME DAY IT WILL BE WORTH MORE MONEYYYYYY!!! BECAUSE I HAD TO HAVE IT TO SIT IN MY SAFE FOREVER BECAUSE ITS THE BEST!!!!!!!!! just like every other knife untouched in the safe...... How many Mule Team knives stay in the box never to be used as Mule Team comparisons, because they are worth too much to use- WHEN THAT WAS THE REASON THEY WERE MADE!!!!
I'd rather give away my knives on here than try and attempt a trade these days. The time on here for comaraderie, trading good knives to good people because of what the knives are, not the dollar behind them, seems to be disappearing in the general BF. Replaced by, how much can I get out of you without giving anything up. Or how little can I get this out of you so I can flip yours for more!!! My last five or six attempts at a trade were the same, they wanted a great knife, and offered me common, lower quality knives for it- and little of what I say I want, but all at a premium because they were NIB.
I've said it before on here. I don't care if your Delica is NIB- it doesn't make it worth more to me!!!!! I don't pay for fanaticism, and NIB (to me) has become a monster on its own, elevating prices through imitation. (If this knife is worth "x" more, then that must mean mine is proportionately more valuable too! Plus if everybody is looking at things with an eye loop- I better get myself on their level of criticism because that is how it's done here- look at ignorance toward PayPal gift in every thread "just because when I started I say everybody state gift or +3.5%- to me it's the same phenomenon with NIB and value and criticism).
I long for the days of knives being used for a bit and decided they weren't for me, and passed along on the exchange, offered to a friend because it fills a hole in his collection. Not just driven by profit and the greed for my own collection because the newest is out and it's like sharks to chum. Then we wonder why new members go from no knives to thousands spent in a couple of months just to catch up, and they don't have a clue how to even put an edge back on the knife they bought, not do they have equipment. They catch the fever and must have what everybody else must have.
When was the last time you looked at your latest "must have" and said- I really don't need it. Knowing that it will sell out/that you could profit off of it/sure deal? To let other knife aficionados get it at the real price? If your answer to that is "Well somebody else will just buy it and sell it for profit on the exchange, why shouldn't I?" Then to me you are the problem, maybe without knowing it, maybe fully knowing it. Knives can be a business, absolutely has to be!! But to be a good business you don't squeeze everything out of your customers as you can (that's a scum successful business), you take your fair share and give people value for their money- in my books. Bladeforums, to me, doesn't have to be the scum business, instead I find it needs to be more of a good business, where we are a community out for each other. Which for the most part we do
There are still places where knives are treated as knives, and it seems to me the camaraderie still exists, places like the traditional forum, the wilderness forums, the individual custom makers forums! We use knives, pass them on, and are generally only interested in price if you find a great deal in a flea market or antique store, not how much you fleeced somebody for your newest knife/latest sale. We cut our food, chop our firewood,whittle, and even put... GASP....scratches on a knife!
While I understand that collecting pristine everything will be around- and it should be around: to preserve our history, but as a knife society I think we need to stop and ask ourselves if everybody becoming more like Liu Kang is worth it. I think it's getting worse all of the time, with the microscopes looking for errors getting stronger, and the community feel disappearing due to greed and unneeded pack driven desire to get the perfect knife.
I've probably insulted some fine members here, but I hope not. This is just my observations about what I've seen in my time here, and changes in how people are transacting with each other. In the past a proposal to trade meant excitement to see which interesting knife would be offered, and how the parties could add or delete or change to make it work to add to the others collection. Now I'll offer you a $100 neck knife and $40 for your custom mammoth handled folder, not even similar quality for the knives where the handle scales alone would cost $70.... It's about wondering how you will try to be taken this time...... Not the excitement of dealing with another knife nut. There aren't many of us, we should look out for each other's interests, because they are our own!!
Some of you will understand what I mean, some won't care. But I hope everybody at least looks at their own actions on the exchange and decides if they think they are in line with what is good for the knife community that is Bladeforums and the larger world. And then makes their own choice on how to proceed. And maybe the next time that you are entering a transaction with somebody you will read his/her posts, get a feel for the person behind the screen name, see how they interact with the rest of the forum while/before dealing with them and treat them like a person- not just your next PayPal deposit. If you are a BNIB ONLY collector who only hangs out in the exchange- join the rest of us out here in the rest of the great forum!! See a new person going haywire buying new knives- send an email perhaps suggesting not buying so much and learning how to appreciate what is there. Enter a trade with a new person who might not know that 3°offset to the blade is unacceptable to your perfections, let it slide if truly out of ignorance or QC difference between newb and aficionado. See a newb wanting all of the new knives "we" get with stars in their cyber eyes, offer them a good deal on an older "new" knife you no longer use that is similar, or offer to give one to them.....
Or not. At least I've said my piece and done what I can to try and make change. And hey, if what I said resonates with you at all and you see a knife I have that you love, or you read about a knife I want that you have/have similar to, let's talk and become friends. User knives also carry the character of the previous owners to the new ones!!
Just my side of the "sellers should list the following 85 points that I've determined are important. And if you don't agree that they should all be 100% perfect then you should t collect or sell knives" attitude. Okay, maybe I came across a bit strong in the last example, but my point remains.
or "hair popping edge" . I am more inclined to spend a shorter amount of time, and I am perfectly happy with a "working edge". I use a sharp maker. There are thousands that never sharpen a knife. When it gets dull they throw it in a drawer, and go to Walyworld and by another cheap knife, lol. 
