For the "NIB=absolutely perfect" crowd. My honest opinion.

Leon. said:
Excellent thread.
I agree that not all knives are meant to be kept "NIB"
But this thread made me think about why I haven't really used some knives that I own..some knives that at the time of purchase I told myself I will use and enjoy all its qualities
so how come I didn't end up using them?
I guess in a way, as a "knife enthusiast" there's a whole lot of knives I like to get a chance to hold in my hands..knives I'd like to play around with every once in a while..and you know there's a lot of variations of the same knife...and its a hobby that can get out of hand very quickly..
like do I really need 3 xm-18's? no..but I still like to own them because they are slightly different from eachother ..and I dont end up using all eventho it was designed to be a user..
so why don't I end up using them despite telling myself that I will?
because maybe subconsciously I know I probably can't afford them!! I probably shouldnt be owning this many knives...and if push comes to shelf, its probably easier to sell a "LNIB" knife and get my money back
and until then, maybe I can enjoy "owning" it and playing with it..

It's stupid I know..
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Leon. Just keep doing what YOU want to do with YOUR knives. Don't let the crowd make you think that your idea of getting joy out of this hobby is 'stupid'......

Worst thread ever. This is not what this hobby is about... It's not about pushing around agenda's. Just enjoy this the way YOU want to, whether that means using every knife you own or some, or none, or who the hell cares?

It's your thing man. Not the OP's....
 
Zeta33 said:
This is the best thread I've ever read, in relation to the state of the exchange, and the expectations associated with. I feel like all of my knives are worthless because not a one of them is truly "unused". They're worth a ton to me, but probably 50% of their value to anyone else. I could go in with in depth responses and agreements to each of your points but, rather than rambling for the greater part of this page, I will leave you with a kudos.

Kudos! (to OP and current contributors)
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I have a little different take on all this. I looked to the exchange to get used knives for me to use. Has that worked? Yes, but not as much as I thought it would. I'm still checking it out though. Have I found - and bought - a couple gorgeous knives on the exchange that are basically NIB? Yup. But I have also started spending more time on eBay, though my ignorance may kill me there. I check "used" in their search engine. I also buy used vehicles. I guess I want somebody else to put on the first scratch or dent, so to speak. But BF is helping me learn what I like.

Using tools is a good thing, and a tool, whether it is a knife or a truck, one that has been used and well cared for has, for me, a different and important value. I like used stuff. :)
 
JR88FAN said:
Wow!
A knife is whatever anyone wants it to be. It can be an item that you buy for profit, it can be something you put in a safe to look at on Sundays, it can be something you use to cut things with everyday.

Point is, nobody has the right to tell anyone what to do with a knife.

It's your property, you use it as you wish. If you want to do nothing with it, or re-sell it at a higher value than that's a choice, but in no way are you taking anything away from this hobby, or other peoples ability to enjoy it (except those that are delusional)

There is room for everyone on this forum, there are all kinds of knives on the exchange, new and used.

Let's not try to project our 'idea of what a knife has to be' onto others. Please.
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I could not agree more! Well said my friend!
 
I had to do a too long, didn't read but I did get enough for the concept. I agree that praising untouched knives and dogging on users (not beaters) is wrong, but knives are like cars to most people. You can make due without them, but having one is a lot better, and when you are shopping for one you wouldn't want a car with dents and dings on it to be the price of a new one.

What gets me are the valuations of used knives. I have had somebody try to dock the price when negotiating a trade over the edge needing to be resharpened. I have also had people try to value a beat up knife at nearly new price. People be crazy, yo.
 
Here here, I have traded successfully several times on here and made a few friends doing so, I pass on a good deal if I got one, if I get a knife try it out and don't like it, I put it on the exchange in hopes to try something else. I recently posted a request for a trade for a discontinued Spyderco, I have seen a few recently sold for reasonable prices both on here and other knife related forums. It is a production model, someone messages saying they have what I am looking for I make what I feel is a solid offer and they are insulted and ask if I have anything along the lines of a $500 midtech, again that's there prerogative, value is in the eye of the beholder and I tend to just ignore people that send silly requests.
 
I've said this for a long time, " There is no right or wrong way to do it " when it comes to knives...
We all have our different perspectives, and priorities. I have knives that have never been used. They have sat since I got them. Only one is what I would consider potentially a decent investment, even though it wasn't bought with that in mind. Personally I get in a rut when it comes to knives I use. If I like the knife I am currently carrying, I see no reason to switch, even though it would be nice to carry something different sometimes...

My first BM knife was a 705 that I got right after they came on the market, probably close to 20 years ago, possibly longer. I carried it everyday and used it quite a lot for a few years.
Then I got a Mini Grip right after they were released. That knife was in my pocket everyday for roughly 5 years. I had other knives, just never felt the need to change...

When I was still collecting slip joints, my focus was early Case red bone knives. I had some extremely nice specimens in various patterns. I would keep them in the safe, and take them out once in awhile to admire and wipe down. Then they would go back in the safe. One day it hit me. I really enjoy looking at these, so why not put one in pocket and carry them every day ? I found I appreciated and enjoyed them even more. In full disclosure, if I needed a knife for some rough use, I wouldn't use one of the red bones, because of what they are. I would always carry another slip joint that had already seen some use. It had absolutely nothing to do with maintaining their value, or possibly making a profit. It was only because these older knives in the same condition they were in, were not easy to find.

If I am looking at a knife in the exchange here, I expect an accurate description of the knife, and decent pictures. Likewise, I do the same if I am selling.
The lowballers are very irritating. If someone has a knife they want to sell, and they ask a ridiculous price for it, that is entirely up to them. The market will dictate how far off they are on the price.
If buying a production knife, people really need to be reasonable, and not expect absolute perfection, because they don't come that way from the factory.
I have been a perfectionist my entire life. It can be extremely frustrating, but as I have gotten older, I have actually learned to acknowledge that there is no absolute perfection in anything...
 
Oh those poor little knives locked away in a safe, how they must suffer. Wow, the knives don't really care, or know anything. You can do whatever you like with them, use them until they fall apart or keep them mint in the dark safe forever. If I keep one mint and I die and it's sold off, it's still ready for the next owner to use if they choose to. Who cares? Is it a big deal to someone that has no money invested in it? No, not until they have a chance to purchase it and then NIB or used it's their right to buy it or not. I have a lot more NIB knives than users. Why? Because I like knives but don't need everyone I own to use. I can buy one with zero intention of ever using it, I just want to look at it and check it out up close, maybe take some pictures of it. Wipe it off put it away, don't need to cut anything with it, I know it will cut just fine. But, why mess it up when I have other knives that aren't nearly worn out. Times could get hard and I might need to sell it, it might bring more than I paid even then, if you can't purchase one like it new any longer. If that happens and I do turn it loose all I got from ownership was seeing it up close, maybe a bit of profit. I'm fine with that and fine with all the nice new blades I have put away. Just as I'm fine with you having just as many users as I do NIB. As long as both mindsets can reach down and produce a nice sharp edge when they want it to use, who cares?
 
I often dwell in medium-high price fixed blades on Ebay (usually old Blackjack and Al Mars), and though most of these blades are in surprisingly good shape 30 years later, I still see many used and scratched blades keep their value at a level I feel is too high... One big scratch below the main bevel is a big turn off for me... Often people don't have a real grasp of the economic decay of a good... I would not normally sell any visibly used knife I own, because if the edge is fully re-done, I just feel they aren't worth it... A few straight light scratches on the flats above the main grind, from the sheath, is about all I can take from my purchases...

Sometimes a knife straight from the maker has cosmetic issues, or vertical play: The customer is king; if he is not happy enough to keep it, so be it...

Using knives damages knives, period: That is why I keep some of the knives I don't really like, because they are the ones I really use: I love to use the knives I hate... To me value is based on superior functionality, and ease of replacement to the same level of functionality: Something still in production that is easy to replace (even if it is expensive, like a Randall): I will probably use (still much less so than a knife I don't like). Something superior in function that is long out of production, and thus very hard or dicey to replace, I will not use: It is such a pleasure to see on sale a knife that is long out of production, and see that it is still in pristine condition... Many of those "mass-produced factory knives" have had very short production runs (often around a thousand), while other "more valuable" ones, like Randalls, have been produced for decades... I don't mind to see the first ones treated as "safe queens", and would rather see production numbers be a factor than actual value... I think unless it is emergency useage, it is nice to see OOP knives go into the future, past us, completely unused and unharmed... I don't mind "safe queens" at all in some cases...

Gaston
 
Not all knives are meant to be kept NIB, that is your knife-your prerogative. If I had a $500 folder I doubt it would see much pocket time! But if you list a knife as NIB and there is obvious clip wear from a few days of carry and signs of use--it is no longer NIB. Taken out and flipped open a couple of times and handled lightly- I would list it as such. Some members don't see it that way and feel....."threatened" when you point these things out. I can understand the frustration especially on very high dollar knives with "blemishes" or received not to your expectations.
Carry/use marks are different than manufacturing flaws (for lack of a better word). Maybe instead of NIB we should use "as I received it in the box from the retailer". :D
 
Hi.. We are all here for the same thing.. Mostly anyway. I am a full spectrum user / collector . I buy knives to use and I buy to collect. Honesty is the best policy . Just because you are ok with blemishes on the knife your selling . Doesn't mean I am. Some of these recent sales like the guy who got the Kirby Lambert snap is poor condition for a top price would have made me extremely pissed.

If you look at the sale threads here and the green forum most guys (myself included) take a loss on everything they sell . Market is a tad bit over inflated and saturated with custom knives ,, If a guy is fair with me I am fair with them . We buy and sell and trade to enjoy our hobby. We are entitled to do what we like with our knives. To the guys who like to play low ball you can piss off and to the guys who like to sell their POS defective knives on the exchange at the expense of my fellow BF members go to hell too.

Enjoy your knives the way you see fit. Be honest with everything you do. Not just here but in life . The forum changes every year with new collectors and makers ETC. Have fun with your hobby and enjoy it the way you want.

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays . I hope everyone has a prosperous year ahead with good health and good friends !!

Mark
 
marko3 said:
hi.. We are all here for the same thing.. Mostly anyway. I am a full spectrum user / collector . I buy knives to use and i buy to collect. Honesty is the best policy . Just because you are ok with blemishes on the knife your selling . Doesn't mean i am. Some of these recent sales like the guy who got the kirby lambert snap is poor condition for a top price would have made me extremely pissed.

If you look at the sale threads here and the green forum most guys (myself included) take a loss on everything they sell . Market is a tad bit over inflated and saturated with custom knives ,, if a guy is fair with me i am fair with them . We buy and sell and trade to enjoy our hobby. We are entitled to do what we like with our knives. To the guys who like to play low ball you can piss off and to the guys who like to sell their pos defective knives on the exchange at the expense of my fellow bf members go to hell too.

Enjoy your knives the way you see fit. Be honest with everything you do. Not just here but in life . The forum changes every year with new collectors and makers etc. Have fun with your hobby and enjoy it the way you want.

Merry christmas and happy holidays . I hope everyone has a prosperous year ahead with good health and good friends !!

Mark
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post of the day!
 
CUTS LIKE A KRIS said:
This message is partly for the "NIB=perfect knife only" crowd, and partly for me screaming against what I see dying in the forum I love:
While I understand your frustrations at not receiving exactly your expected perfect knife, honestly and without malice, people like you are why I really don't want to deal with the exchange much. By that I mean that we are on two separate end of the knife spectrum. No insult, but because of people that are worried about every little scratch and ding on their new knife (as is their right), every single knife seems to be turned into a Grail knife that has to be kept pristine and immaculate because it will go up in price. To me, becoming a commodity, and sadly no longer a knife.
.............................................................................................................................................
While I understand that collecting pristine everything will be around- and it should be around: to preserve our history, but as a knife society I think we need to stop and ask ourselves if everybody becoming more like Liu Kang is worth it. I think it's getting worse all of the time, with the microscopes looking for errors getting stronger, and the community feel disappearing due to greed and unneeded pack driven desire to get the perfect knife.
..............................................................................................................................................

Some of you will understand what I mean, some won't care, OR SOME WON'T.
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I'm with you on this.

JR88FAN said:
Wow!
Let's not try to project our 'idea of what a knife has to be' onto others. Please.
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Think you are missing the point of this thread.

Cuts like a Kris is pointing out a growing trend where more and more members got unrealistic expectations when buying/trading on the exchange.

Moreover, exchange turned into a place for business driven by profit instead of being a place where knife enthusiasts get a chance to exchange/try out different knives.
And when profit is the main criteria, people look for minimum investment and maximum profit with disregard for anything else (like that Liu Kang specimen). NIB/Perfect becomes very important.
That ends up hurting this community as a whole more that it helps it as it tend to drive prices up, triggers unhappy trading experiences, etc.

As long as there is honesty and common sense when dealing with each other (selling/buying/trading), I see no real danger to this community.
 
I feel the same with the OP 100%.
I always seek for opportunity to use any of my blades. If I ever sell my knives it wont be NIB or BNIB, it would be USED and CARRIED.
But that is because I own "less" knives (because my "less" is "too many" for the wife :P) which I own for each specific tasks, because I don't own too much money. MAYBE, if I can afford every knives available, there would be lot of non-users. Because I feel we knife afis aren't satisfied with just 1 back-up knife... Or just buying one offs or limited editions just for safe queen, put on display, etc. I cant see myself (yet) selling knives for profit. I still remember the stories about the knives I sold or gave away. I am trying not to have too much feelings on objects though.

Well, people changes, I've seen friends whos started as users and year or two later IMO disgracing this hobby of ours by flipping knives, but I think about that if I am in his shoes: not getting to use knives everyday, everytime like me, and need money... Well I would be flipping knives now.
 
Op I think I know where you are coming from, I think many of us think back to the stories of old about fabled blades being used and passed down from generation to generation. Its a romantic concept and I don't think its dead. Yeah a community of people using and trading knives is cool, and I personally still see plenty of that.

I am a mix of a collector and user, some of my knives are users and they get put through their paces. Some get babied because they cost me two+ paychecks and I'm a broke college student so thats a lot for me. I do not however sell my knives unless they are just not my cup of tea, and then I have always taken a loss just to recoup some of the funds. Personally I don't buy anything used for two reasons: with knives I don't mind wear and tear on a knife, I actually think its cool, but I want it to be MY wear and tear, I want to know where those scuffs and scratches came from. The second reason is because I've seen too many idiots who abuse their stuff and then resell it, and I have no way to know if the thing I'm buying from some guy on the internet was abused. So I buy my stuff new from reputable dealers.

I also see a lot of people mad at knife flippers buying with the idea of selling at a profit in the future, I agree I hate that crap. It just increases the price for everyone and is freaking annoying, I don't defend those people at all. If you hate that crap check out this vid, its old but good for a laugh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqUKEhyvFaM
 
Why, in the USA, would anyone think buying a knife and then selling it for a profit is bad? That is the foundation of capitalism.

Sounds like sour grapes from players who were played to me. If you are not good enough to play, you need to get out of the game. If you are sentimental about objects, you obviosly don't have enough life experience, such as a house fire. If you sell, provide good pictures and full disclosure, if you don't expect trouble.
 
brownshoe said:
Why, in the USA, would anyone think buying a knife and then selling it for a profit is bad? That is the foundation of capitalism.

Sounds like sour grapes from players who were played to me. If you are not good enough to play, you need to get out of the game. If you are sentimental about objects, you obviosly don't have enough life experience, such as a house fire. If you sell, provide good pictures and full disclosure, if you don't expect trouble.
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Capitalism is good to a point, but the beauty of free markets and capitalism is actually that it provides the consumer with the best quality at the best price, do to competition from companies in the same market. People with a lot of money spending well over the asking price for an object with limited supply is artificial inflation and obvious screws those who can't afford the markup. So no its actually the complete opposite of capitalism. Just for the record I've never been played, I refuse to pay secondary prices. I literally do not feel any knife is worth more than the makers asking price, I don't care how rare it is. Maybe if I was rich I could throw money away but I'm not so I don't
 
hazy said:
Capitalism is good to a point, but the beauty of free markets and capitalism is actually that it provides the consumer with the best quality at the best price, do to competition from companies in the same market. People with a lot of money spending well over the asking price for an object with limited supply is artificial inflation and obvious screws those who can't afford the markup. So no its actually the complete opposite of capitalism. Just for the record I've never been played, I refuse to pay secondary prices. I literally do not feel any knife is worth more than the makers asking price, I don't care how rare it is. Maybe if I was rich I could throw money away but I'm not so I don't
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Capitalism.
I don't think that word means what you think it means.

If a manufacturer makes 1,000 knives, and there are 10,000 people who want to buy it at the MSRP, the knife is 'worth' more than MSRP. We see this time after time with many manufacturers, and custom makers.
If a manufacturer makes 1,000 knives, but there are only 100 people who want to buy it at the MSRP, the knife is 'worth' less than MSRP. Wes see this manifested when a knife is sold below original asking price.

If anyone is screwing those who can't afford the markup (and I don't think anyone is), it's the manufacturer who knowingly builds far less knives than will meet demand at their asking price, not the capitalist who recognizes this imbalance and profits (or tries to) by attempting to match supply with demand by raising the price.
 
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