For those of you with a LARGE Sebenza 21 & 25

DrtyHarry said:
Hmmm.....well, I found one thing I am not that happy with the 25. When I use one hand to close the 21, the inside of the lock-bar has a sharper edge where it's easier for my right thumb to engage the lock. On the 25, that part of the lock is more rounded and requires more pressure to get a good grip with the lock bar to drop the blade. I'm not sure if I'm explaining myself that well. Basically...it's easier to close the 21 than the 25 because the 25 has a rounded edge where the 21 has a more cornered edge on the lock for the blade to drop. IMHO, it's a minor design flaw that can so easily be fixed. Maybe I'm over examining...but this part is a fact. The edge should be cornered to get a better grip with the thumb. IMHO.
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This post got me to pull my micarta 25 out of my pocket and compare it to a large 21 Bocote. Now, I may be misunderstanding your post or perhaps you got your model numbers mixed up, but the "thumb pad" on the lock of the 21 is more rounded than that of the 25. While I don't have any issues with either, so much so that it has never even crossed my mind to examine the differences, it would seem that it would be a little easier to get traction on the 25 lock bar with one's thumb. I took pictures....

sox14vO.jpg

mNkT8oi.jpg
 
pwrdbycotn said:
This post got me to pull my micarta 25 out of my pocket and compare it to a large 21 Bocote. Now, I may be misunderstanding your post or perhaps you got your model numbers mixed up, but the "thumb pad" on the lock of the 21 is more rounded than that of the 25. While I don't have any issues with either, so much so that it has never even crossed my mind to examine the differences, it would seem that it would be a little easier to get traction on the 25 lock bar with one's thumb. I took pictures....

sox14vO.jpg

mNkT8oi.jpg
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Maybe it's just the 21 has a larger cut-out so it's easier to get at?
 
Very nice pics!! I had to use my phone so forgive me if they are not as sharp as yours. I will try and better explain myself.

When applying pressure to both locks on the 21 or the 25, the 21 has more "real estate" for your thumb to apply pressure on. Below, on the left you have the 21 and on the right you have the 25. The part that is filled in red is the main part of the lock, the blue part is part of the lock that has a curve to it and not much grip/pressure is applied there. All in all, the 21 has more of a total area for your thumb to push against. The BLUE part really doesn't get that much pressure applied because it is grooved. IMHO. Oh, and the grey part to the left of the red is the groove on the other side of the lock where your thumb doesn't even touch...

I can open and close the 21 10X FASTER than I can with the 25. And yes....the 25 is still a bit stiff since I just got it yesterday, but I don't think it will make much of difference even if it was more breaking in. Bottom line is that I have to push down harder for my thumb to engage the lock on the 25. Am I starting to make sense?

28jzgx0.jpg
 
I even got a hold of 4 test dummies, and all 4 agreed with me that the 21 is easier to close because there is more area for the thumb to apply pressure on. I had to explain to them what I was "trying to explain"...2 called me a bit of a nut for paying such close attention, but my other 2 friends who are knife fans....may have given the overall nod to the 25, but they all did admit that the 21 was easier to close after explaining to them what my point was that I was trying to get across.
 
DrtyHarry said:
I even got a hold of 4 test dummies, and all 4 agreed with me that the 21 is easier to close because there is more area for the thumb to apply pressure on. I had to explain to them what I was "trying to explain"...2 called me a bit of a nut for paying such close attention, but my other 2 friends who are knife fans....may have given the overall nod to the 25, but they all did admit that the 21 was easier to close after explaining to them what my point was that I was trying to get across.
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I think it's what Cody was referring to...more of a cut-out on the 21 so there is more of the lock exposed to put your thumb on. Either way, both are great designs with somewhat different purposes. Use them and enjoy them. We can all nit-pick anything to death if we sit and focus on it, or we can enjoy these things that we acquire for how well they do their job and not worry about the minutia.
 
I think "nit-picking" is part of enjoying them even more! But yes....these are the finest knives humans ever made! ;)
 
I think your 25 will break in, and if not, you can loosen the pivot a tiny bit and get it where you want it, and as it wears in tighten it back up. That covers the opening.

Then the second part is closing. I'm not sure if it will happen right away, but you are gonna get a callous on your thumb. I read about it with the Zaan before and never got one (sold my Zaan) and when I just asked my wife 2 seconds ago, while testing again for this thread, she said I do have one on the end and around the right side of my thumb around the parts where I open and close my Sebbys. None on the left side or my left thumb. So I guess since I have been EDCing a Sebby for years, my thumb is built for it now and I really can't say the 25 is any harder to close for me, but do agree it has less real estate.

I guess it's like your 1911. Once you get used to the grip angle, try to pick up a glock. So much for your groupings.
 
JustinFournier said:
I think your 25 will break in, and if not, you can loosen the pivot a tiny bit and get it where you want it, and as it wears in tighten it back up. That covers the opening.

Then the second part is closing. I'm not sure if it will happen right away, but you are gonna get a callous on your thumb. I read about it with the Zaan before and never got one (sold my Zaan) and when I just asked my wife 2 seconds ago, while testing again for this thread, she said I do have one on the end and around the right side of my thumb around the parts where I open and close my Sebbys. None on the left side or my left thumb. So I guess since I have been EDCing a Sebby for years, my thumb is built for it now and I really can't say the 25 is any harder to close for me, but do agree it has less real estate.

I guess it's like your 1911. Once you get used to the grip angle, try to pick up a glock. So much for your groupings.
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Well said! And I like the 1911 analogy....and tomorrow, I'm gonna take a pic with my WC Starbenza along with my favorite WC pistol. :)
 
I have both, my 25 is collecting dust.
The 21 is a perfect knife, why chris reeve decided to change it is beyond me, maybe he fell foe the 'thicker is better' trend.
 
HwangJino said:
I have both, my 25 is collecting dust.
The 21 is a perfect knife, why chris reeve decided to change it is beyond me, maybe he fell foe the 'thicker is better' trend.
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As one of the biggest fans of the 25, I feel obliged to offer your 25 a good home. Especially if it is a CF model. Friends don't let friend's abandon Sebenzas!

Thank you,

Justin of the Canadian Coalition for the Prevention of Sebenza Abuse.
 
JustinFournier said:
As one of the biggest fans of the 25, I feel obliged to offer your 25 a good home. Especially if it is a CF model. Friends don't let friend's abandon Sebenzas!

Thank you,

Justin of the Canadian Coalition for the Prevention of Sebenza Abuse.
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
HwangJino said:
I have both, my 25 is collecting dust.
The 21 is a perfect knife, why chris reeve decided to change it is beyond me, maybe he fell foe the 'thicker is better' trend.
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I don't think Chris set out to change the 21, he just designed a new and different model to be offered alongside it, which is what we have seen so far. My suspicion is the Large 25 will be discontinued before we see the end of the 21. I can't image the large Inkosi and 25 being offered at the same time, if the large Inkosi is anything like the small version. At that point the 25 will cease to be a "Sebenza" and will become its own thing, and the controversy will end. What will be left with to discuss!!??? :eek:
 
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IMO, the lock bar is stiffer on the 25. When you look from the side, it's apparent there's more surface area exposed on the 21 making it easier to close.
Of course this pic isn't as good as pwrdbycotn's, but basically the same pic.

 
Ajack60 said:
IMO, the lock bar is stiffer on the 25. When you look from the side, it's apparent there's more surface area exposed on the 21 making it easier to close.
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YES! This is the point I was trying to make. And not only is it stiffer, there is less surface area for your thumb to spread pressure on.

As for the 25 going away and the 21 staying....well, I guess it's kinda like the 10mm and the 40S&W for the Feds. lol With that said, the 25s might be a better a buy IF they stop making them. If I was Chris, I would have made a few more changes on the 25...the 21 and 25 are really very close. To be honest, the evolution of the Sebenza is on par with the evolution of the Porshe 911. That car has looked the same for the past 30 years! lol
 
I love the 911 analogy. Great diagram by the way in post 24! Welcome again to the forum Dirtyharry. I look forward to more of your contributions. It's nice to have some fresh opinions, enthusiasm, and viewpoints in the group.
 
kidcongo said:
I love the 911 analogy. Great diagram by the way in post 24! Welcome again to the forum Dirtyharry. I look forward to more of your contributions. It's nice to have some fresh opinions, enthusiasm, and viewpoints in the group.
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I appreciate the warm welcome my friend, and I thank you for the kind words. I can't tell you how much respect I have for fine and exotic things that are hand made/crafted....especially things like knives, high end/custom 1911s, and exotic automobiles.

I used to collect Microtech knives....when I was a kid I used to collect switchblades. And as I grew older, I discovered the Microtech brand of knives. I couldn't believe how much nicer these Microtech knives were over the Chinese (and some Italian) pieces of junk I had been collecting....and this was far before we all were able to get on the net and learn and order these things. (*Some of the older Italian stilettos are rather nice.*)

Things are different today....I wish I could design the upcoming "30". I have learned so much about this knife over time....more so now that I own a 21 and a 25. And honestly, they both have pros and cons. So far though....if I HAD to let go of one, I would keep the 21. That opinion might change in a while because I have only had the 25 for 3 days and have not had enough time to test it as much as I like....well, I have not really been able to test BOTH of them as much as I would like, but I will and will report back with more of an in depth opinion after using them both a bit more. It's great that I was able to find some common ground with other members on a few minor details I had picked up on. And like I said, these are both magnificent knives....no mater how you look at it. BUT, seeing how we are all enthusiasts....it's perfectly fine to critique them as much as we want. Isn't that one of the reasons we are here?

I will say this though, most every CRK owner I've met and chatted with here and on other boards and forums, all sound like really good gentlemen. Sadly, I can't say that about the Microtech fans I grown to know over the years....
 
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