forced pitting/heavy patina

[vannmann]

I have done a vinegar soak for a nice patina, but recently saw some frontier style blades that had clean/shiny ground bevels but the upper half kept natural and VERY pitted to add a nice "old" style appearance, and the pitting was not hamons...How is this accomplished? if anyone has a pic or two of any they have done like this I would appreciate seeing them.

 

[GregS]

I have done a vinegar soak for a nice patina, but recently saw some frontier style blades that had clean/shiny ground bevels but the upper half kept natural and VERY pitted to add a nice "old" style appearance, and the pitting was not hamons...How is this accomplished? if anyone has a pic or two of any they have done like this I would appreciate seeing them.

They're left rough from the forging process...?

 

[vannmann]

no, awhile back I saw a local guy who rubbed his forged blades with gun blueing and dipped in clorox (I think)...does this sound familiar to anyone?

 

[Daniel Fairly Knives]

I have been experimenting a lot lately with patinas and I'm starting to think there is more art than science involved. (or maybe I just don't know what I'm doing )

I'm guessing the etch would be done after something around 60 grit, when you etch for a while with scratches it tends to make them bigger, almost a wrought iron look. After that some finishing would be done in the areas where you don't want the pits.

I just had a knife come out like you described, I wound up grinding out the pits because it wasn't the look I wanted. The funny thing was it was on 5160 which was edge quenched and for a while after a few etches and sanding it looked like a cloudy hamon? I know (well I'm pretty sure ) it was just a quench line but it was interesting.

As a side note I'm finding that hot vinegar seems to work as well or better than Ferric Chloride for me.

EDIT- Sorry, after reading the question again this probably doesn't help!

 

[Wild Rose]

Blades with the really rough spine and "polished" bevels are generally a mix of forge finish or a forged texture finish on the spine as well as etching, from miled to wild.
While one can etch only the spine and can even get it heavily etched it will never exactly match the forge/textured finish such as done by makers, Gib Guignard/WildRose, Tai Goo/WildGoo, Scott Roush, John Cohea, and Dan Winkler to name but a few - I know I've tried...

For the heavily etched look the fastest way is to use the cold blue/bleach method and that can be varied considerably- examples:

These blades were forged by the late Gib Guignard and the spine is forge finished then the etching was done by me - as you can see it can vary considerably due to soak time and material......

 

[Kentucky]

heres a hawk done with the bleach/cold blue method. The longer the etch the more aggresive the patina..

 

[Rick Marchand]

Here are some examples of gun bluing and bleach...

 

[Southclaw]

Here are some examples of gun bluing and bleach...

Rick I like it. I have been experimenting with diffrent patinas. I was wondering if you could give a quick explenation on the procces you used on that first knife?
And maby where to get the stuff for it.

 

[Rick Marchand]

It is simple hardware store cold bluing solution. Apply it, let it dry and soak it in bleach.

Factors that affect the etching pattern...

- The finish prior to bluing
- How the bluing is applied (patterns, layers, etc)
- How you bleach soak. (spray, dip, full submersion, etc)
- Temperature of the soak
- The duration of the bleach soak
- How you clean/sand the blade after the bleach soak.
- Subsequent bluing applications and buffing/polishing to highlight patterns

There can be as many variations as bringing out a hamon. You just have to get to it and experiment.


Rick

 

[james terrio]

And maby where to get the stuff for it.

The grocery store. It's vinegar and bleach, dude Mustard, lemon juice and many other acidic foodstuffs can bring a nice patina to carbon steel as well.

As for the deep pits left by rough forging, I'm pretty sure the best way to get that is... to roughly forge it.

I've textured brass by laying it on coarse concrete and hammering it, that would probably work on annealed steel to some extent as well.

Frankly I'm amused by the interest in "faking" a forged surface or leaving it there in the first place. If you really want scale hammered into your blade and nasty coarse spots for moisture/gunk to seep in and cause rust, go for it. I'm a stock removal guy and have enough problems getting imperfections out, without purposely putting more in

 

[Southclaw]

Thank you Rick. Love the blades.

 

[LRB]

A light patina on these two with blue and bleach.

 

[Daniel Fairly Knives]

It is simple hardware store cold bluing solution. Apply it, let it dry and soak it in bleach.

Factors that affect the etching pattern...



Rick

Rick, thanks for the tips, I'm a big fan of your work by the way.

How permanent is the blue/bleach patina? It sounds pretty good, you mentioned having to sand or buff it off.

 

[hoopster]

Here's one done with Brass black and vinegar.

 

[Rick Marchand]

How permanent is the blue/bleach patina? It sounds pretty good, you mentioned having to sand or buff it off.

I would call it an etch rather than a patina. How I understand it, patina is surface oxidation that forms a blanket over the metal. The blue/bleach is plain old corrosion that happens due to a chemical reaction between chlorine(bleach) and selenium dioxide(blue)

The fumes are toxic by the way!

So the pattern is actually etched into the blade. I usually leave it in for 25-35 minutes. This is what you get at 2hrs... If you left it in overnight you wouldn't have much of a knife left but it would sure look as if it was just dug up from centuries of old...

 

[Daniel Fairly Knives]

Thanks Rick I'm going to have to try this soon. Nice Kiridashi!

 

[John M Cohea]

Here's one with a combination of bleach/ferric etch and forge texture.The texture is done with a special made hammer so that it resembles rasp texture.

Here's a damascus piece with the same rasp like forge texture.

 

[Rick Marchand]

Your work has always been a source of inspiration for me, John.

Rick

 

[vannmann]

John, that rough finish with the forging hammer is exactly what I was talking about, can you elaborate on the process of the forging hammer, and possibly explain how to reface the hammer or tool you are using?

 

[vannmann]

Rick, the last picture you posted of the long knife with the rough shaped back edge, did you forge that into the blade or is that a blue/bleach treatment...That is also exactly what I was referring to.