Forge welding D2?

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Dec 24, 2005
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Can D2 be forge welded?? I was given some 1/4'' D2 and I am thinking of doing a wraped hawk with it if it is possible to forge weld it together..I know that stainless is hard to weld and D2 is almost a stainless due to the chromium content....What do you guys think??
 
Can D2 be forge welded?? I was given some 1/4'' D2 and I am thinking of doing a wraped hawk with it if it is possible to forge weld it together..I know that stainless is hard to weld and D2 is almost a stainless due to the chromium content....What do you guys think??

One of my books by Jim Hrisoulas says it is an air hardening steel and that makes it difficult to forge and is more suited for the advanced forger. But he does go on to say "try it" if you want to . :)

Go ahead....I DARE ya.. :)
 
Oh don't you dare me you mr. knife head man !! I'll do it till I'm blue in the face or out of free D2 :D :D
 
Seems like the trick would be to keep it hot at all times lest it harden on you, am I right on this? Straight from forge to anvil and back in again? Just curious, I dont have any D2 or a forge. :(
 
Oh don't you dare me you mr. knife head man !! I'll do it till I'm blue in the face or out of free D2 :D :D

Yep...did you hear bigjim...he says it might be tricky.

One thing for sure though, it makes a great blade. Bet ya can't do it :rolleyes:
 
Hmm, you probably can, but the question is if you should? D2 is a cold work tool steel, and can be hardened to 60-64 HRC but it's brittle too, so you would not want any more brittleness than what it actually has. The steel has a high chromium content of 11.5. This makes it behave differently than other steels, and forge welding can and probably will lead to cracking.

You can try it out. If the D2 austenitizing temperature is high enough, like F 1850, it may lead to a dissolution of chrome carbides. After air quenching it can be given several tempers, typically 2-3, the temperature depends on where you want the HRC to be, and the brittleness, of course.

But then, why go through all this if there is more suitable steel out there?
 
A better question would be, why would you need or want to?
 
D-2 is way too good a metal to waste in this way. Even if it doesn't crack, there will be a lot of internal stress, and possibly a goodly amount of hidden cracks. One thing D-2 is not, is brittle. I have no Idea where this rumor comes from. I made a run of D-2 Hunters for Ted Nugent a few years back, and as a test, I ground a hunter out of 3/32. ( the actual hunters were 5/32" stock. I heat treated to 61-62Rc, and cracked the blade on purpose from the edge half way up to the spine. The blade is only 1" wide with a 3/4" crack. It has been in service by me as a hunter for about 15 years now. It still field dresses White Tail just fine. It should have failed years ago. Are there stronger steels out there? Of course. Do I need it. Not hardly. Mike
 
Hmm, you probably can, but the question is if you should? D2 is a cold work tool steel, and can be hardened to 60-64 HRC but it's brittle too, so you would not want any more brittleness than what it actually has.



I have used D2 to make punches, shears, drill bushings and form dies. It is not brittle. I have made three blades of D2, one tested to destruction. At about Rc62 it cut (hammered) through .060" nails with a .015" grind behind the edge with no real damage. Finally broke it in a vice, it yielded before breaking. Not brittle.

Unlike most knife steels, it really does need a cryogenic treatment as part of the quench. The retained austenite at room temperature is something on the order of 20%, but reduced to less than half that if taken to -100F as part of the quench, before first temper. Dry ice from the grocery store and some acetone will do the trick just fine.

Unless you like the big fat carbides, oil or plate quench it and don't use the secondary hardening hump. I like 500F.
 
Don't harden from above 1800 F so retained austenite is not too unreasonable . I would dry ice for about 4 hours , then double temper at least 2+2 hours.
 
It is not brittle.

Well, compared to other steels it is extremely strong yet more brittle. The simple fact someone makes blades or punches that hold up well doesn't mean the steel is not brittle, because brittleness doesn't automaticlally mean the tool cracks under normal or even hard use. It just means compared to other, comparable steel types it is more brittle, due to it's structure. I'd say for a punch or a thick blade it's not a factor anyway, for a sword or a long cutlass it might be. After all, the steel was developped for punches.
 
How long in the dry ice Nathan?



I leave it in the dry ice for a few hours, but it probably isn't necessary to leave it in that long. It is necessary to do it as part of the quench. Pull it out of the oil, spray it off with water and then get it started in the dry ice. FYI, it doesn't take a whole lot of dry ice. $5 worth is enough to do the job unless you're doing a big blade or a bunch of blades.

You know to soak it at about 1500 for a while before bringing up to temperature and to leave it at temperature (I use 1850) for about 40 minuets, lots of alloying elements to dissolve...
 
Don't try to forge weld D2, it would be a waste of good steel. It can be done but not in the way we forge weld simple carbon steels.
 
Steels are not brittle! How you heat treat it determines brittleness.
 
"Well, compared to other steels it is extremely strong yet more brittle."

You're right. You hit the nail on the head right. But it is strong. And when your cutting edge fails, it was too weak for the force you were using. Some steels at high hardness exhibit a brittle failure, meaning no distinct yield point, but a break. D2, at a nice blade hardness of 60-62 will yield. And the edge doesn't chip off (like some hard S30V, a "tough" stainless) it rolls. This is for a "cutter", not a "basher".

D2 is more brittle than other common shop metals like A2, S7, H13 or P20 by the joules of energy dissipated in impact tests. But it has been my observation (as a machinist, not a knife maker) that at a given hardness, D2 is stronger, and thus exhibits less failure as a cutting tool, brittle or otherwise. It gets used as blades to grind rock contaminated plastic, not A2. I imagine that in a high impact application like a sword or cutlass it would not be tough enough.

BTW, those impact tests in the literature were for the "standard" heat treat, which is not the best heat treat for a knife. The volume of large carbides does not help the toughness. Nor the sharpenability. I think a fast quench makes for a better knife blade.

"The simple fact someone makes blades or punches that hold up well doesn't mean the steel is not brittle, because brittleness doesn't automatically mean the tool cracks under normal or even hard use. It just means compared to other, comparable steel types it is more brittle, due to it's structure."

I agree with that. But that doesn't mean it deserves a reputation as a brittle blade, because I have observed good durability with D2 at high hardness (63-65). And lousy durability with O1 at the same hardness.

So let me modify my statement. For a moderately high hardness application, D2 has good durability and isn't too brittle. And a fast quenched blade with a fairly thin grind isn't a bear to sharpen and is a joy to own.
 
did I win the bet:confused: :D
 
You CAN forge D2. Just ask Nowicki. He loves the tough stuff. It would probably be VERY difficult to forge weld due to the high chromium. You MIGHT be able to do it in a can, but that doesn't help for a 'hawk.

-d
 
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