Forged blade or stock removal ?

I think BT wa driving more at the point that stock removal techniques require less skill than beating a piece of round stock into a knife. It's not that very nice blades can't be made through stock removal, but that the lazy sheisters out there can bang out an ugly piece of crap and call it a knife much easier via stock removal.

One trend I've noticed with stock removal knives is the tendency to have NO distal taper whatsoever, and points that end up being 45 degree angles because of it. Really what that comes down to is laziness in making the fixtures (these being production companies).
 
I love a good forged blade, but thinking stock removal is somehow inferior is a misnomer.

In fact many of the modern steels don’t lend themselves to forging in the classic sense.

Getting a knife made by a respected maker is the best way to guarantee a quality tool; be it by stock removal or forging.



"If you're not living on the edge, …you're taking up too much space."

Big Mike
 
kgd said:
The first paragraph is more relevant than the second IMO. Basically it appeals to a certain degree of pride that results from the longer (perhaps, I don't know) route to making a blade....

The second paragraph is trying to demonstrate a technical superiority to a process that doesn't exist. I call that hype...
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I agree wholeheartedly about the first paragraph being relevant. And I'm going to address it.

The second paragraph, well, KGD sounds like he's channeling mete or bladsmth or Kevin, etc. And I agree fully. Kevin points out on his website that that same barstock IS forged. That's how you get barstock.

Regarding the first paragraph- I do both. I forge and I do stock removal. In a very (perhaps overly) simplistic sense- forging gets me an otherwise improperly shaped piece of steel ready for the grinder. It may be an integral bolster (I've only done, two, but they count) or a taper, a thinning of stock or a complete reshaping of stock as when I make a rebar knife.

There's a misconception in the first paragraph- that grinding equates to using patterns or jigs or something. I don't use either on my ground blades. I've occasionally rough traced a knife I was trying to reproduce that had some design characteristics i might forget about while working. But that's a "don't forget the target edge drop is around a half inch" reminder rather than a specific pattern.

I have seen, and on some occasions, felt, the same zen-like behavior of a master smith in watching a maker grind a blade. Honestly, not to be immodest- I had a friend from an aikido class watching me a few weeks ago take 5 chunks of stock and without measuring anything, turn them into profiled and rough beveled blades and he said that it was like watching an artist. He does construction and isn't really sure how you make an 8 to 9 inch knife for an order by eye :D I wasn't particularly zoned in or anything, just working- something any stock removal maker would take for granted if seen watching another stock removal maker.

I do NOT deride people who do use patterns, blank tracings, or jigs. There are numerous benefits to all of them. I can't afford or design a really GOOD labor saving jig for my scandi grinds, so don't bother with it. My shop doesn't allow me the production level to make it worthwhile to order some waterjet cuts for a few styles of knife that I'd like to make identically (A real roof and woodstove would triple my workrate) - I suck, mentally, at being a human cnc machine, so avoid using tracings.

I am pointing out, though, that stock removal doesn't remove ingenuity, art, creativity, soul, nor free hand dexterity.
 
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Cpl Punishment said:
One trend I've noticed with stock removal knives is the tendency to have NO distal taper whatsoever, and points that end up being 45 degree angles because of it. Really what that comes down to is laziness in making the fixtures (these being production companies).
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GUILTY!!!!

Actually, I do put a distal in on some types of knives, but never on a leuku or a large thin machete like chopper. Since I tend to try to use thin stock on the stock removal blades as much as is practical (for the knife) I often have no need for a distal taper beyond what is necessary for the edge near the tip. Most of the forged blades get one, and honestly it's hard NOT to do a distal on a forged blade. Since I have yet to make a 1/4 inch spined stock removal blade, I can't really say a whole lot about what the work level is to adding a distal taper to something that big. (I, personally, would forge it out regardless. you don't have to "just" forge or "just" grind a blade)
 
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