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The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is $300 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
Forged In Fire joke
- Thread starter Bill DeShivs
- Start date
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"Ok JD Smith, in round two you're going to act like you're getting faint and sit out for 30 minutes to create drama and tension on the set. And be sure to pull your knife out of the quench early to get a nice flare-up."
Hehe, sorry it just sounds funny.
I heard that the producers expected more drama on the set, and early on were a bit off-put by the cooperation and good spirits of the contestants, which is why some of the "reality show drama" seems a bit forced.
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- Jan 18, 2010
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- 217
I will say this, while I think I could make a better blade in 3 hours than some contestants have...it's only if I could grind it from barstock. I'm trying to learn but put a hammer in my hand and I'm going to break things, not make things
how long until someone starts a FIF spin-off, inspired by cooking shows, titled "n00bs w/hammers and fire" where mentors try and guide an forging idiot like me through the knife process. now that i think of it, anyone want to submit a pilot?
Bill DeShivs
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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I'm insulting no one's integrity, nor would I. If you agree to do a TV show, you do what the producers tell you-or you aren't on the show.
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- Jul 7, 2013
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- 2,614
I helped a local guy heat treat a blade in my shop a little while back. After we quenched the blade in oil he made a comment to me that he was expecting flames. He seemed a bit disappointed. I didn't ask, but I'll bet he was a fif fan.
I do enjoy the show for what it is. Of course there could always be improvements, but it's still entertaining.
I do enjoy the show for what it is. Of course there could always be improvements, but it's still entertaining.
Drew Riley
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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Ok, guys, now that maker 2 is out of the running, let's talk about round 2:
Maker 1: We need you to flub the epoxy. You have 2 options: a) Grab this 24 hour cure brand, that shouldn't even be in the pile for a 3 hour competition window, or b) grab 2 bottles of resin, but not the hardener, or 2 bottles of hardener but no resin.
Maker 3: We need you to drill your scale's pin holes 1/64" smaller than the size pin you're going to use. Also, pick something really brittle for the material.
Maker 4: We need you to burn up a couple of drill bits while drilling out your tang for your handle. Make it as noisy as possible.
Ready on set? Lights, camera, ACTION!
J. Hoffman
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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The makers you are talking about decide whether you are insulting their integrity, not you. You may have not INTENDED to insult them, but that is different.
Bill DeShivs
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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Are you one of those makers?
So being serious for a moment I completely understand Bill's frustration with the show.
It comes from being a lifer in a pursuit that is an outlier in the big pictures. You grind it out in your little niche for decades doing your thing for the sheer love of the craft and not for fame and fortune. Then one day a medial outlet or some other mainstream source "discovers" Bladesmithing. You take in your stride and say good for all involved and you keep your nose to the grindstone doing your own thing.
Then eventually you cross paths with said media circus and poke your head in just because it's your passion. You find out they've taken the whole shebang and twisted it and bent it and just treated it with disrespect in the name of ratings, a quick buck, and fame. The players in the game may not have the same long view and are just happy to gain that tiny bit of exposure at the expense of your soul.
Like the Clash said,
They said we'd be artistically free
When we signed that bit of paper
They meant let's make a lotsa mon-ee
An' worry about it later
It comes from being a lifer in a pursuit that is an outlier in the big pictures. You grind it out in your little niche for decades doing your thing for the sheer love of the craft and not for fame and fortune. Then one day a medial outlet or some other mainstream source "discovers" Bladesmithing. You take in your stride and say good for all involved and you keep your nose to the grindstone doing your own thing.
Then eventually you cross paths with said media circus and poke your head in just because it's your passion. You find out they've taken the whole shebang and twisted it and bent it and just treated it with disrespect in the name of ratings, a quick buck, and fame. The players in the game may not have the same long view and are just happy to gain that tiny bit of exposure at the expense of your soul.
Like the Clash said,
They said we'd be artistically free
When we signed that bit of paper
They meant let's make a lotsa mon-ee
An' worry about it later
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2009
- Messages
- 7,310
Here is the reality.
I have watched videos of bladesmiths making blades and the family just rolls their eyes and have ZERO interest in watching boring knifemaking in real time.
Turn on Forged in Fire and everyone of them sits their asses down and watches every single episode and loves it.
Sure people here know how to make knives, but haven't a clue how to make a successful cable TV show.
There is a reason The History Channel is not asking us how to make a TV show.
I have watched videos of bladesmiths making blades and the family just rolls their eyes and have ZERO interest in watching boring knifemaking in real time.
Turn on Forged in Fire and everyone of them sits their asses down and watches every single episode and loves it.
Sure people here know how to make knives, but haven't a clue how to make a successful cable TV show.
There is a reason The History Channel is not asking us how to make a TV show.
Adam, you nailed it! BUT - I do think if they did as mentioned earlier and included a very short bio of each person (more than "been bladesmithing for 30 yrs", etc) with a few photos of knives they have built. It could work worked info the show without needing extra time, no more than 15 or 20 seconds each smith. 2nd, take a few more seconds to better show details of each knife built, and at least mention tempering.
Ken H>
Ken H>
autogateman
Rod Braud
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2017
- Messages
- 180
I think it would be real interesting if they threw a complete noob in for good measure! Maybe I'll submit my app.... lol
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith
ilmarinen - MODERATOR
Moderator
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One thing not common knowledge, and rarely mentioned, is that ALL participants are required to sign a non-disclosure agreement. It is very strict and they can't discuss the filming, details about how it is put together, what the participants are paid, any scripting, created shots, or other parts of how things are done and the order they are done in. The penalties are severe if they do. They are given a set or rules of what they are to say and not say.
I have talked to several of the contestants in person, as well as on the forums. I know others from Ashokan and other get-togethers, and have seen them work, and the knives they can produce. When asked about the show, they universally say it is hot, noisy, very bright, and a whirlwind. They also all say they can't talk about any more than that. In more private talks, there is an implication that some things seen are for effect. They also say that the order seen in grinding and forging isn't exactly in chronological order. Most say they are told the quenchant is a commercial quenchant and nothing more. When asked if there is something else added to make the flames, they say "I don't know". When asked about the tempering, they say very little except that "it is done overnight by someone else, and they have no control over it."
My personal observations where there are things that don't add up are:
Dropped steel/blades that catch the floor on fire.
Flaring quenches
And my biggest question is them quenching a blade and going immediately to the grinder and grinding for 30-40 minutes on a fully hardened and un-tempered blade. You even see some sighting down the blade and trying to straighten a warp ... on a un-tempered blade. I believe some of these shots are from day 2 and are inserted into the scenes from day 1 to make more excitement.
I think most of the mistakes are real. We all make them, and under the rush and chaos of the filming, they get easier to happen. I do have doubts about most of the drama shots.
Besides the "doomed to fail" materials choices at times, I think that the producers deliberately put other pitfalls in the show with things like unsuitable handle materials and resins that can not be used in just an hour. Having them on the shelves sets a trap for people to make a mistake.
Some things defy logic. Using two hardeners/resins, with the camera right there in a close up of the shelf as you take them off. And the judges seeing it from across a busy ( and often smoky) set.
It is also somewhat unlikely that every single contestant leaves saying ,"I did my best, my knife/sword/blade failed to meet the tests, I'm OK with getting kicked off." We all know some of those chaps are known to be a bit argumentative and vocal in their opinions. It is far more likely some would say, "Screw you, that was the worst cut with a sword I ever saw. It wasn't my sword that failed, it was Doug's stupid sideways cut!" The fact that not one contestant ever discusses the obvious problems with the testing and other issues is also telling.
Last comment - We all need to remember that there are many scenes shot after the timed period is over ... when he events of the day are known to everyone. Scenes like the aside comments from the contestants are shot long after the event they are talking about ( usually wearing different clothes), and the judges group shots of,"Oh, no, not the water!" and other comments about procedures and materials are normally shot later on and inserted. It may take four or five tries to get it to look natural. I have a few friends who are privy to the production of other History channel and food network competitions and they all say that these scenes are often shot after the whole competition is over to make fill time for airing in a certain time frame. They also say that many of the scenes are directed, some are shot with a basic guidance command (drop the steak on the floor and say, "Oh no, I have to come up with another plan!"), and some are scripted. FIF is probably as it happened for the main part, with extra drama and fire added to make it appeal to the mass audience.
Here are extensive past threads with some of the contestants comments:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...orged-in-Fire-contestants-introduction-thread
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1300844-Forged-In-Fire
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1300940-Thoughts-on-Forged-in-fire
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1374949-Forged-in-Fire-Am-I-mising-something
I have talked to several of the contestants in person, as well as on the forums. I know others from Ashokan and other get-togethers, and have seen them work, and the knives they can produce. When asked about the show, they universally say it is hot, noisy, very bright, and a whirlwind. They also all say they can't talk about any more than that. In more private talks, there is an implication that some things seen are for effect. They also say that the order seen in grinding and forging isn't exactly in chronological order. Most say they are told the quenchant is a commercial quenchant and nothing more. When asked if there is something else added to make the flames, they say "I don't know". When asked about the tempering, they say very little except that "it is done overnight by someone else, and they have no control over it."
My personal observations where there are things that don't add up are:
Dropped steel/blades that catch the floor on fire.
Flaring quenches
And my biggest question is them quenching a blade and going immediately to the grinder and grinding for 30-40 minutes on a fully hardened and un-tempered blade. You even see some sighting down the blade and trying to straighten a warp ... on a un-tempered blade. I believe some of these shots are from day 2 and are inserted into the scenes from day 1 to make more excitement.
I think most of the mistakes are real. We all make them, and under the rush and chaos of the filming, they get easier to happen. I do have doubts about most of the drama shots.
Besides the "doomed to fail" materials choices at times, I think that the producers deliberately put other pitfalls in the show with things like unsuitable handle materials and resins that can not be used in just an hour. Having them on the shelves sets a trap for people to make a mistake.
Some things defy logic. Using two hardeners/resins, with the camera right there in a close up of the shelf as you take them off. And the judges seeing it from across a busy ( and often smoky) set.
It is also somewhat unlikely that every single contestant leaves saying ,"I did my best, my knife/sword/blade failed to meet the tests, I'm OK with getting kicked off." We all know some of those chaps are known to be a bit argumentative and vocal in their opinions. It is far more likely some would say, "Screw you, that was the worst cut with a sword I ever saw. It wasn't my sword that failed, it was Doug's stupid sideways cut!" The fact that not one contestant ever discusses the obvious problems with the testing and other issues is also telling.
Last comment - We all need to remember that there are many scenes shot after the timed period is over ... when he events of the day are known to everyone. Scenes like the aside comments from the contestants are shot long after the event they are talking about ( usually wearing different clothes), and the judges group shots of,"Oh, no, not the water!" and other comments about procedures and materials are normally shot later on and inserted. It may take four or five tries to get it to look natural. I have a few friends who are privy to the production of other History channel and food network competitions and they all say that these scenes are often shot after the whole competition is over to make fill time for airing in a certain time frame. They also say that many of the scenes are directed, some are shot with a basic guidance command (drop the steak on the floor and say, "Oh no, I have to come up with another plan!"), and some are scripted. FIF is probably as it happened for the main part, with extra drama and fire added to make it appeal to the mass audience.
Here are extensive past threads with some of the contestants comments:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...orged-in-Fire-contestants-introduction-thread
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1300844-Forged-In-Fire
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1300940-Thoughts-on-Forged-in-fire
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1374949-Forged-in-Fire-Am-I-mising-something
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2009
- Messages
- 20,420
I know right ?
Surely there is a carbide endmill there that would solve some "I forgot to drill tang holes problems."
Or a quick pass helps slot a guard instead of filing.
I've only got to assume they think it would take too long, or it's not hooked up
You would think the sponsor would want it used so it's shown more.
Sponsor Credits
Last edited:
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2008
- Messages
- 5,547
I super wished we could use that mill. It sits there begging to be fired up.
It's not hooked up, just sent I believe by JET, a sponsor for the show.
Anyway, if it worked, there would probably have to be two of them- there's two of everything else, except the power hammer, and there should be tow of those.
It's not hooked up, just sent I believe by JET, a sponsor for the show.
Anyway, if it worked, there would probably have to be two of them- there's two of everything else, except the power hammer, and there should be tow of those.