- Joined
- Sep 13, 2001
- Messages
- 816
The recent discussion that has sidetracked the CNC thread has prompted me to start this thread. I would like to voice my opinions or the two schools of knifemaking. I use both, so please understand I am not partial to one method over the other so much as I would like to dispell some of the myths that seem to linger over each.
First, we will start with the forging hype. No, forging doesn't improve steel over their inherent abilities they start with. You can get significant grain reduction, but that is a ton of work and I am not sure it is the best method ( you start with large stock and forge at low temperatures to inhibit grain growth as you forge). The top bladesmiths do however tweak their methods and test extensively to ensure they are practicing sound methods.
Anyone can distaly taper a blade. It is a lot less work to forge in a taper with a power hammer than it is to grind it in. That has been my finding. I can forge and grind a blade faster than I can band saw out the profile and gind off the stock. I also HATE to grind that much, so it's a big benefit to my state of mental stability to be able to forge.
Grain alighnment is important, but I don't think the benefit is noticeable in a knife. A forged crankshaft with proper grain alighnment IS better than a billet crankshaft with improper grain flow. That is data from Caterpillar ( I used to work for Cat, and was a failure analist)
Why forge??? Lots of reasons that will differ from smith to smith. I started forging when I was 11. My Father was a blacksmith and farrier, so was my Grandfather and most of my uncles. It's in my blood, and I feel an obligation to perpetuate it. I also like the more intimate interaction with the blade that forging gives me.
Now for stock removal. The problem I see that has plagued stock removal makers is the lack of some intangible method to build hype over. Basicly the stock removal method is too "what you see is what you get" to be able to come up with a marketing plan that allows for "creative" marketing. No "quench in the blood of a red headed virgin by the light of the moon". The Benefit this method does have is the avaiability to use more modern steels and materials. There is simply no need or benefit to forge many of the stainless steels on the market today. In fact, many would suffer under the hammer rather than adding any beneficial prperty. Stainless steels don't move under the hammer easily, require precise and very slow annealing, and are prone to cracking if forged at the wrong temperature range.
I do think an equal blade can be ground out of the same material the forged blade came from. It's just done with a grinder or mill instead of a hammer. For me, on the blades I make by stock removal, it is for the benefits of the modern steels.
As for my grinding method, sharpening methods, edge geometry and so forth....all teh same no matter what the method. I flat grind down to an edge thickness of .010-.015", and roll a convex edge on. I just find it cuts better, is easier for me to maintain, even in the field, and is strong. If a knife is properly heat treated, ground properly to a thin edge ( added benefit of knowing your steels, heat treating them to be hard enough to hold a great edge, and tough enough to support the edge in a thin cross section to provide excellent geometry), and sharpened at proper angles, you shouldn't need to remove metal everytime it needs the edge touched up, and if you do need to remove metal, not too much. I sharpen my knives in the field on the edge of my truck window. One of the benefits of hunting in Texas...your truck is never far away
. I use a stroping motion, and it works very well.
Obviously this is an open for discussion topic, so if there is a detail you feel is shrouded in mystery or is simply BS, get it off your chest and let's be done with it!!
First, we will start with the forging hype. No, forging doesn't improve steel over their inherent abilities they start with. You can get significant grain reduction, but that is a ton of work and I am not sure it is the best method ( you start with large stock and forge at low temperatures to inhibit grain growth as you forge). The top bladesmiths do however tweak their methods and test extensively to ensure they are practicing sound methods.
Anyone can distaly taper a blade. It is a lot less work to forge in a taper with a power hammer than it is to grind it in. That has been my finding. I can forge and grind a blade faster than I can band saw out the profile and gind off the stock. I also HATE to grind that much, so it's a big benefit to my state of mental stability to be able to forge.
Grain alighnment is important, but I don't think the benefit is noticeable in a knife. A forged crankshaft with proper grain alighnment IS better than a billet crankshaft with improper grain flow. That is data from Caterpillar ( I used to work for Cat, and was a failure analist)
Why forge??? Lots of reasons that will differ from smith to smith. I started forging when I was 11. My Father was a blacksmith and farrier, so was my Grandfather and most of my uncles. It's in my blood, and I feel an obligation to perpetuate it. I also like the more intimate interaction with the blade that forging gives me.
Now for stock removal. The problem I see that has plagued stock removal makers is the lack of some intangible method to build hype over. Basicly the stock removal method is too "what you see is what you get" to be able to come up with a marketing plan that allows for "creative" marketing. No "quench in the blood of a red headed virgin by the light of the moon". The Benefit this method does have is the avaiability to use more modern steels and materials. There is simply no need or benefit to forge many of the stainless steels on the market today. In fact, many would suffer under the hammer rather than adding any beneficial prperty. Stainless steels don't move under the hammer easily, require precise and very slow annealing, and are prone to cracking if forged at the wrong temperature range.
I do think an equal blade can be ground out of the same material the forged blade came from. It's just done with a grinder or mill instead of a hammer. For me, on the blades I make by stock removal, it is for the benefits of the modern steels.
As for my grinding method, sharpening methods, edge geometry and so forth....all teh same no matter what the method. I flat grind down to an edge thickness of .010-.015", and roll a convex edge on. I just find it cuts better, is easier for me to maintain, even in the field, and is strong. If a knife is properly heat treated, ground properly to a thin edge ( added benefit of knowing your steels, heat treating them to be hard enough to hold a great edge, and tough enough to support the edge in a thin cross section to provide excellent geometry), and sharpened at proper angles, you shouldn't need to remove metal everytime it needs the edge touched up, and if you do need to remove metal, not too much. I sharpen my knives in the field on the edge of my truck window. One of the benefits of hunting in Texas...your truck is never far away
. I use a stroping motion, and it works very well.Obviously this is an open for discussion topic, so if there is a detail you feel is shrouded in mystery or is simply BS, get it off your chest and let's be done with it!!
)
