Forged or stock removal Let's dispell the myths

[jdm61]

Have you got YOUR helmet on, Kevin? TONS!

Start with W.W. Cronk and work your way forward.

Here is a name for you: Steven Licata.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

Now I'll put my helmet on.........i think that Cronk knives were non-functional sci-fantasy abortions that should be locked in the same vault as Frank Frazetta paintings and Hummel figurines...lol

 

[jdm61]

I like forging for the freedom I have in moving the metal to whatever shape I want.

I would not even bother trying to make say .. a pipe hawk by stock removal.

And JF is reading this so be nice

Hey.....i am one of the MANY new guys that copy as best i can.......oops...i mean that I am INSPIRED by Fisk, Crowell, Dean, Moran, Hendrickson, Hudson, etc. lol. I own knives by all of those guys and a couple fo moreand YES, I'm afraid to use them
The reason folks do make those types of knives is because the designs work and they SELL. All of those guys have made EXTREMELY expensive and elaborately embellished knives.......but I challenge you to find one that wouldn't work as a highly functional cutting tool in a pinch. Of course with most of them that wouldn't happen......how many times do you get attacked by a wild boar while taking your Fisk NLT German hunting sword back to your safe deposit box?

 

[Kohai999]

Now I'll put my helmet on.........i think that Cronk knives were non-functional sci-fantasy abortions that should be locked in the same vault as Frank Frazetta paintings and Hummel figurines...lol

You really NEED to look at some of his work, actually as much as you can.

Let's call it Loveless inspired, but there is a definite difference between Cronk's work and Loveless's.

Rod Chappel, Steve Rapp, Schyler Lovestrand, Steve Likarich, Jim Ence, Herman Schneider....ALL worked in very "not Loveless" styles, that could be "traced" back to the tree, but the same could be said of many forgers.

Mr. Mandt, you are hardly one to be arbiting taste, considering your recent acquisition. Congratulations and EWWWW! in the same sentence. And no, I will not "bite" you!

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[Larrin]

Except for that whole "send it to Bos and wait two weeks" thing...lol

There are plenty of stock removal guys that do their own heat treating. Buy a heat treating furnace for $1000 and you're all set, after some practice anyway. Anyway, I know you're being sarcastic, but the point is hardly valid.

 

[jdm61]

LMAOPIMP.......ok......Cronk is tasteful and Bill Moran isn't? ahhhh......I understand now. time to go dig out some old Molly Hatchet records and drool over the cover art

 

[Kohai999]

I don't understand why forging can't just be appreciated for continuing a lost art.

Continuing a "nearly" lost art!

And it is appreciated for that, but I do remember a fair number of makers, BOTH forgers and grinders spinning up the "mystique" of the hand crafted blade, back in the day(the boom years, the '80's).

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[Larrin]

Continuing a "nearly" lost art!

And it is appreciated for that, but I do remember a fair number of makers, BOTH forgers and grinders spinning up the "mystique" of the hand crafted blade, back in the day(the boom years, the '80's).

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

Definitely, Bob Loveless and Bill Moran were always going at it. Anyway, I don't know which position it looks like I'm taking here, but my father forges steel to sell to stock removal customers, so if I had to guess, I'd say I'm fairly neutral.

 

[jdm61]

There are plenty of stock removal guys that do their own heat treating. Buy a heat treating furnace for $1000 and you're all set, after some practice anyway. Anyway, I know you're being sarcastic, but the point is hardly valid.

Yes, I am......and by the way, Ron Gaston was one of my first "favorite" knifemakers and i still love his stuff.....so I'm not down on guys who stock remove or use stainless. As for my comments about Cronk knives, i likewise really didn't get that elaborately carved knife of Larry Fuegens that was displayed in a museum a few years back....the one with the carved face. i guess i am kinda crusty and traditional.....there are many fantasy or art knives that are extraordinary displays of skill, but to me they aren't really knives. But show me a wildly decorated Warenski Price knife or something like that and I'm drooling with the rest of you

 

[Kohai999]

LMAOPIMP.......ok......Cronk is tasteful and Bill Moran isn't? ahhhh......I understand now. time to go dig out some old Molly Hatchet records and drool over the cover art

Never said that Cronk was tasteful, just cool, and not forged.

My art appreciation tends to H.R Giger, Tim Vigil, Robt. Williams, Coop(red devil chicks, not OUR Coop) Frank Kozik, Greg Irons and Justin Hampton. For all I know you may like Matisse or Monet.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and I be holdin about 1/2 of my collection in forged knives.

You got ANY good stock removal pieces?

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[jdm61]

Nope.......all of mine are MS knives except for a VERY cool Sean McWilliams forge 440v Columbian fighter i ordered from him back around 91-92. But there are a few that I would like to have. A Gaston fighter being at the top of the list, followed by a Lickarich Persian fighter like one i saw in Knives 1994, I believe, Amazing piece. Oh, and a 3rd or 4th Gen Henry bowie, but who doesn't want one of those And maybe one from Mr. Rapp too.

 

[jdm61]

Never said that Cronk was tasteful, just cool, and not forged.

My art appreciation tends to H.R Giger, Tim Vigil, Robt. Williams, Coop(red devil chicks, not OUR Coop) Frank Kozik, Greg Irons and Justin Hampton. For all I know you may like Matisse or Monet.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and I be holdin about 1/2 of my collection in forged knives.

You got ANY good stock removal pieces?

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

Yep........Matisse is one of the LATER guys that i like....but then again, i think that Bernstein was the last guy who composed anything resembling decent orchestral music and he was a lone voice crying out in the wilderness.........and i also think that Free Jazz is atonal self indulgent crap

 

[Kevin Jones]

Let's call it Loveless inspired, but there is a definite difference between Cronk's work and Loveless's.

Rod Chappel, Steve Rapp, Schyler Lovestrand, Steve Likarich, Jim Ence, Herman Schneider....ALL worked in very "not Loveless" styles, that could be "traced" back to the tree, but the same could be said of many forgers.

STeven Garsson

You have to admit there's many riding on Loveless's back today.

Many of our forgers got their inspiration from early americans who did use the knives that inspire the highly embellished that are kept in the safety deposit boxes today.....

 

[Kohai999]

You have to admit there's many riding on Loveless's back today.

Many of our forgers got their inspiration from early americans who did use the knives that inspire the highly embellished that are kept in the safety deposit boxes today.....

I don't know where genius smiths like Fogg and Fikes got their inspiration, but a lot of the "newish" current crop got their inspiration, nay, patterns to a "t"- from Jerry Fisk.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[jdm61]

You have to admit there's many riding on Loveless's back today.

Many of our forgers got their inspiration from early americans who did use the knives that inspire the highly embellished that are kept in the safety deposit boxes today.....

yessir.....i guy that i bought a little James Rodebaugh knife from had 2 Will and Fincks and one Price listed. They were all rather plain examples and they ranged in price from $6500-10,000. I heard that a couple of very elaborate Price knives sold for $135,000 each at auction recently.

 

[Kevin Jones]

All of those guys have made EXTREMELY expensive and elaborately embellished knives.......but I challenge you to find one that wouldn't work as a highly functional cutting tool in a pinch. Of course with most of them that wouldn't happen......how many times do you get attacked by a wild boar while taking your Fisk NLT German hunting sword back to your safe deposit box?

Very funny, but very true.....

 

[Keith Montgomery]

Is this becoming one of those forged versus stock removal threads?

There was a time that I believed the myths that were being propogated about forged knives. Then I started reading what Kevin Cashen has on his website and what he has posted in the Shop Talk forum. Most of what I had come to believe was true turned out to be at best hyperbole, and at worst, pure hogwash. However, I still prefer forged knives because of the tradition.

 

[Kevin Jones]

However, I still prefer forged knives because of the tradition.

Yes Keith, there's a lot to be said for tradition.

Ever noticed at the beginning of a western, when the camera pans down main street, you always hear the ring of the anvil in the background. That's because the movie producers know it does not feel like the west without it.

And next to the bartender, the blacksmith was the busiest and most important guy in town

 

[jdm61]

Yes Keith, there's a lot to be said for tradition.

Ever noticed at the beginning of a western, when the camera pans down main street, you always hear the ring of the anvil in the background. That's because the movie producers know it does not feel like the west without it.

And next to the bartender, the blacksmith was the busiest and most important guy in town

Now Kevin.....I was going to disagree with you, but then i noticed that you said that the barber and blacksmith were the busiests GUYS (implying males) in a typical western town......lol

 

[Kohai999]

Is this becoming one of those forged versus stock removal threads?

...... However, I still prefer forged knives because of the tradition.

That is what it comes down to is preference....for a vast majority of criteria.

There is excellent performance to be had from many steels, top quality aesthetics from many makers.

Some knives are "better" with stainless steel and hollow grinds; chute knives, subhilts, utility knives in marine environments....

Some knives are "better" with flat grinds and carbon steel, swords, though not knives, are almost exclusively in this category, big bowies with distal taper, hunters, where the emphasis is on thin, easily sharpened, razor edged cutters....

Collectors, just like makers, should have an idea of what they like best, and go for the brass ring. I was slinging the crap , and although I don't care for Mr. Mandt's Moran, I CAN appreciate that HE cares for it, it may be the cornerstone of his collection, and that passion and commitment is to be respected.

The same can be said of the makers, regardless of production methodology. The skill, passion and commitment, specifically to be full-time, and to have faith and dependance on one's skills to put food on the table, ESPECIALLY in this day and age is to be respected.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[Kevin Jones]

That is what it comes down to is preference....for a vast majority of criteria.

There is excellent performance to be had from many steels, top quality aesthetics from many makers.

Some knives are "better" with stainless steel and hollow grinds; chute knives, subhilts, utility knives in marine environments....

Some knives are "better" with flat grinds and carbon steel, swords, though not knives, are almost exclusively in this category, big bowies with distal taper, hunters, where the emphasis is on thin, easily sharpened, razor edged cutters....

Collectors, just like makers, should have an idea of what they like best, and go for the brass ring. I was slinging the crap , and although I don't care for Mr. Mandt's Moran, I CAN appreciate that HE cares for it, it may be the cornerstone of his collection, and that passion and commitment is to be respected.

The same can be said of the makers, regardless of production methodology. The skill, passion and commitment, specifically to be full-time, and to have faith and dependance on one's skills to put food on the table, ESPECIALLY in this day and age is to be respected.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

Bravo.
That pretty much says it all, and as usual, said well.....