Forged, Stock Removal.......Carbon, Stainless...folder, fixed blade

[Russ Andrews]

And you'd be right..!

 

[Mecha]

A good smith will set their steel up for optimum structure before heat treat, regardless of whether the steel is forged or stock removal. Forging helps steels like certain batches of cru forge v or aldo's 52100. Forging heat breaks up the course spheroidized structure as does normalizing at proper temps for the steel. After normalizing, there will be grain refinement and sometimes fine spheroidizing. This affects the soak time needed to get the steel into solution for quenching. Forging or stock removal offer no advantage over the other if you get the best structure pre austentize/quench. You can more easily damage the steel irreparably through forging though.

Thanks for the details, Willie71. :]

Of course it is - don't take me so literally.
You know that I meant that after forging, the steel can be in such a disarray that it needs to be put back at square 1 so that it can then be taken forward into whatever the next step would be best for that steel.
Forging may help in that direction. It may not.
The list of conditions and steel types is lengthy, to say the least.
My point is for buyers to ask their potential makers what they do and why.
Simply getting a piece of steel hot and beating it with a hammer doesn't make it better.
Like I said earlier, forging offers far more ways to ruin a decent piece of steel than to help it.
it's up to the buyer to sort out his makers and find the ones who understand this.


"The most a black smith can ever hope for is to end up with as good a piece of steel as the one he started with."

No worries, Mr. Andersen, I'm not taking you literally, your information is great stuff and gave me a chance to expound my thoughts, which usually means over-complicating everything until it doesn't make sense anymore.

It's all wonderous, part of what makes cutlery so entrancing. I don't think that forging or not forging will always make a blade better or worse than another. Plus I'm always ready to eat a big helping of hat, with a side of foot in any case.

 

[Kohai999]

When I went to my first Ashokan conference in the mid '80's, it was educational to a degree that cannot easily be distilled into a paragraph or two.

The theme for that conference was pattern welded metal, and all of the makers in attendance had brought out some form of pattern welded metal, most of them steel.

Most of the damascus shown had problems....cold shunts, blisters, boring patterns....you name it. This was a time when Wayne Valachovic was charging $100.00+/inch of damascus. The stuff he had there didn't have too many issues, but it was random....and pretty boring to look at...and expensive. He had a fighter made out of carbon steel with a thuya burl handle. I LOVED that knife, even slept with it under my pillow that night.

It developed powder rust over time and nothing I could do would keep the blade shiny and bright....I sold it and never looked back. Had it been damascus, would have likely not noticed the rust and kept it.

The reason that I bring up the story is twofold....

1. It shows that my heartbreak with carbon steel goes back a long way, lol....

2. Having been there when many makers were struggling with damascus has given me a perhaps unique appreciation for where the material is at this point. My love for pattern welded steel has only deepend over the years, and my enthusiasm remains quite strong. I love bold patterns, and particularly prefer deep etching.

Michael, I was thinking of you when I started this thread. You are a significantly more accomplished professional than I will ever be in a kitchen and your thoughts have great value to me, even if I don't share your preferences....while I only use Scanpan cookware. Like anything else where choice is involved....there are no wrong answers here. I could play a Gibson Les Paul limited edition and will pretty much always be a rank beginner and Jack White could use a cigar box guitar and sound like Jack White, which is to say, an incredible talent.

Would have to say for a carbon monosteel that 3V is my preference above all others based upon my use...it seems to be less prone to rust and holds a wicked edge.

I'm not particularly sentimental or romantically inclined about the PROCESS of knife manufacture.

Larry Fuegen and I were sitting in a park bench last year, enjoying a very peaceful day overlooking the San Diego river.

Larry and I attended our first Ashokan conference at the same time, but have only known eachother well for about 15 years and have been close friends for maybe 8 years or so. When we were chatting, it dawned on me that my friends who make knives are some of the best makers alive. This was not by design, or driven by thought, it's just the way it worked out.

Phil Baldwin has been a very close friend for over 20 years, Matt Diskin the same, Butch Vallotton for close to 25. Each friend has taught me so much in terms of design, material choice, work methods, tool choices......

The reason that I mention that, is, like Steven65, I AM sentimental about the knives themselves....very much so, more than I should be at times. Late at night, oiling pivots or giving a quick Flitz and wipe, the marvel, joy and excitement that I felt when first seeing those knives washes over me like sunlight.

Thanks everyone for sharing your thoughts and feelings!

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[Lycosa]

A great thread.
I like all things knife. I really do. But, if I had to, I'd choose a Beta Titanium blade that was made just right.
rolf

 

[Ben B]

I like patina on a working knife. These two get used most every day and I think they are beautiful.
Both are 52100, with a 416ss laminate on the Foster. I also like the way carbon steel sharpens and cuts. Not surprisingly, blade geometry is also very important to how it cuts. The Kramer is fantastically thin all the way to the spine, but still stiff enough.