Forged, Stock Removal or Both?

Up until recently I have forged all my knives. I am doing a little work with stock removal now and will probally do more in the future for special projects.

I too have a question. The Knifemakers Guild and a lot of the knife public consider Damascus a raw material just like bar stock purchased from a steel supplier. So if a bladesmith like Jerry Fisk makes a Damascus folding knife it is considered a "forged" piece. However if Warren Osborne makes a folding knife from Damascus it is considered stock removal.

So if the difference is Jerry made his own Damascus would a fixed blade that he ground from his own Damascus be considered "forged"?

I am interested because of a future project I am considering.

Daniel
 
DWinkler said:
Up until recently I have forged all my knives. I am doing a little work with stock removal now and will probally do more in the future for special projects.

I too have a question. The Knifemakers Guild and a lot of the knife public consider Damascus a raw material just like bar stock purchased from a steel supplier. So if a bladesmith like Jerry Fisk makes a Damascus folding knife it is considered a "forged" piece. However if Warren Osborne makes a folding knife from Damascus it is considered stock removal.

So if the difference is Jerry made his own Damascus would a fixed blade that he ground from his own Damascus be considered "forged"?

I am interested because of a future project I am considering.

Daniel
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The distinction is generally did the maker forge the blade? If the maker buys damascus that someone else forged, or bar stock that was forged by the steel mill, then the maker is doing stock removal.
 
mkhop said:
Metaldender I am in no way trying to be sarcastic and admire forged cutting things but isn't filing or stoning removing stock . I have read long ago was that you end up with a better molecular structure on a forged blade making it potentially stronger than strictly grinding. I have often wondered , I consider a forged blade more interesting and craft like.
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mkhop
when folks refer to stock removal they invariably mean power tools, usually a 72 inch belt grinder. It also implies a entirely different skillset.
from blade to handle to sheath all my work is done with hand tools. not because their in any way superior, more so because thats the skillset and tool collection Ive developed over the years.
all that said I have nothing against stock removal, heck its a whole art form unto itself ( and some of my best friends are Stock removal makers! :D )

as far as a better finished product, about the only benefit I could think of off the top of my head would be edge-packing and the jury is still out on that one.
the other benefit? my forge and shop still work when the power goes out ( which happens often up here lol )
but seriously some of the finest blades being made today are made on a bader grinder. its a personal preferance thing
 
DWinkler said:
Up until recently I have forged all my knives. I am doing a little work with stock removal now and will probally do more in the future for special projects.

I too have a question. The Knifemakers Guild and a lot of the knife public consider Damascus a raw material just like bar stock purchased from a steel supplier. So if a bladesmith like Jerry Fisk makes a Damascus folding knife it is considered a "forged" piece. However if Warren Osborne makes a folding knife from Damascus it is considered stock removal.

So if the difference is Jerry made his own Damascus would a fixed blade that he ground from his own Damascus be considered "forged"?

I am interested because of a future project I am considering.

Daniel
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Daniel IMO, if the Damascus is forged by the maker then the knife is considered forged regardless of the degree of grinding/shaping.
 
DWinkler said:
Up until recently I have forged all my knives. I am doing a little work with stock removal now and will probally do more in the future for special projects.

I too have a question. The Knifemakers Guild and a lot of the knife public consider Damascus a raw material just like bar stock purchased from a steel supplier. So if a bladesmith like Jerry Fisk makes a Damascus folding knife it is considered a "forged" piece. However if Warren Osborne makes a folding knife from Damascus it is considered stock removal.

So if the difference is Jerry made his own Damascus would a fixed blade that he ground from his own Damascus be considered "forged"?

I am interested because of a future project I am considering.

Daniel
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That was probably a bit of a compromise on the Guild's part. You have a LOT of incredibly talented stock removal makers who buy damascus because they are not set up to make it themslves. If you applied a pure "sole authorship" rule to the SR Guild members as far as damascus goes, you would be leaving out some mind blowing work where the only thing the maker didn't do was forge the billet. Sounds like a very wise and fair compromise to me:D There may be some question when you have a situation where a smith like Ed Caffrey prefers to forge the billet of certain types of damascus to rough shape and size so that the pattern follows the shape of the intended blade.
 
Daniels question is valid and that's the grey area: If Warren Osborne takes the piece of Jerry Fisk's billet and grinds his folder blade out of it, it's considered stock removal. Yet Jerry's is forged. Hmmmmm..... (is considered personal or concensus? )

(I know that this is nit picking, and, for me, I just want to know the methods. But we all know that labels are abundant and improperly used in this world. :foot:)

In the end, 99% of the work requires some form of stock removal, and every piece of steel came out of a forge, somewhere. ;)

Coop
 
I guess when we talk about a knife we usually refer to the final maker when classifying it. I have a Crawford carry knife with Mike Norris Damascus and I give Mike full credit for making great steel but if i'm refering to the knife I usually look at the maker who cut the blade out of pre-made stock. We still need to acknowledge the smiths who pressed the steel more often. How often do we talk about that actual steel which was used by different makers?
 
Interesting point on the damascus stock. I guess ALL steel is forged at some point in its life. For me I use the "forged to shape" guide to distinguish between forged and stock removal.

Stephen
 
Stephen F said:
Interesting point on the damascus stock. I guess ALL steel is forged at some point in its life. For me I use the "forged to shape" guide to distinguish between forged and stock removal.

Stephen
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I can see where you are coming from Stephen.
In spite of what I stated above, I would prefer for the maker to at least give the billet a few good whacks of the hammer. :eek: :D ;)
 
I'm at least 60/40 SR to Forged. I like the knife. I like to get representative pieces from lots of makers. I collect themes to some extent and display in the same way. Many more FB than folders though.
 
I don't consider a knife to be forged unless it has been forged to at least the rough shape of a blade. Forging a billet of pattern welded steel and then making the blade via stock removal is not a forged blade, in my opinion. I actually had no idea that anyone thought otherwise. Live and learn.

I have heard the all knives are stock removal, all knives are forged stuff before. That arguement doesn't wash with me. Just because steel is hot rolled doesn't mean the blade was forged, and just because a blade has some material ground or filed way to get to final shape, that doesn't make it stock removal.
 
I guess my question would be, why would you not forge a blade to shape if you forged the damascus? Daniel mentioned a future project where I assume there's special circumstance since he generally forges his blades.

I would also assume that most stock removal makers don't forge damascus thus they must stock remove other's damascus.
 
For the past 4 yrs or so I have done only forged blades. I was doing stock removal on some custom orders but no longer do stainless or air hardening steels at all. i am working toward finishing my MS and anything but forging for me right now is out of the question.

Chuck
 
From a collector’s standpoint, I don't really care at all whether the blade is made by forging or stock removal. To me it is about the knife, not how it was made. When I see it, I know that it is one that I want. I have both forged and stock removal knives in my collection and have some knives that I don't have a clue how they were made or what they were made of. It doesn't make me like them any less. More important than how it was made to me is the maker himself. I have bought knives that I really would not have, just because I like the man/woman that made it. Some of those are my most prized.

From a maker’s standpoint I get a lot of enjoyment out of forging, it is just fun to do. I have forged Damascus (cable) and will try some more, but I don't have the equipment (and I don't want it) to do it competitively. The only power hammer I have is Charlie with his 8 lb sledge.

I have to admit that it is much more fun to make a knife that is already sold than one that you think will sell. Stock removal seems to be where the orders take us right now. The tougher stainless and stain resistant steels seem to really be popular. It must have something to do with the rust problem on a carbon steel knife.
 
I am set up to forge, thus nearly all of my knives are forged, but I am going to expand in to SR, but keep it to no more than 10%. THis will allow me to use some of the Stainless Steels or more complicated steels in some folders.
Lin
 
How do you define forged?

I think makers should give a clue as to how much "forging" is done to achieve the end result in a percentage of stock removal.

When I do a rustic bowie it usually ends up being 10 percent and sometimes less removal.

On a dagger blade, as much as 50 percent.

I personally think that a lot "forged" blades should be called "Forge Profiled" That is how I would classify a dagger that I am working on. I forged the "Shape" of a dagger, but I grind the bevels as I didnt want the bevels to extend past the riccasso.

Make sense?

When in doubt, ask for progress pictures :)
 
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