Forging press opinions wanted.

For sure that's going to make the top crossbar plenty strong. No deflection at all for that.

What are your plans for the total frame? Is this to be a floor mounted press? How tall? Have you done any calculations for total weight of the frame yet? Do you plan on ever moving the press? OR will it be located in a place with no plans for moving?

I could almost see a frame of only 3 ft to 4 foot talk with that cross bar on top and bottom. Then bolt the total frame to a stand - or weld to make a solid unit? What for the crossbar that slides up 'n down?

I'd sure like to have some other folks chiming in here with comments.
 
Yes, my plan was to have the bottom kinda mirror the top. but with a provision for QD dies etc. I was planning on having it a stationary device on
a heavy stand with tank, motor etc. protected under the stand. with 1/4-inch aluminum panels. (I have a 10-Gal tank)
As for the traveling part of the press I was going to copy coal Irons design a bit by having it grab the Angle iron flange on the inboard side.
where I am having issue is figuring out do I need wear plates and how do I attach them. Aluminum bronze plate is extremely expensive, so I want to do it right and judiciously.
And yes, please anyone chime in. But Ken I do 100% appreciate your help and thank you Sir.
Thanks Jerry
P.S my angle iron is 5 foot tall. When I layout the cylinder. do I want it at 100% extension when die to die. or leave an inch or so of the piston rod in the tube???
 
also, I have a filter for the return line from my pump. pump is going to be most likely 20 to 22 GPM what is the pressure on the return line back to the tank??? want to make sure the filter can take it???
 
About rod travel/extension, I would leave at least half inch or so. Just make sure there are no dies combination, where you are left with cylinder piston bottomed out and still work travel to go. Other than that - cylinders work the same, no matter how long rod is out. There are no sweet spots or something like that.
"With the pump single or 2 stage?" - if it is single stage pump, then you need to see this calculator https://www.baumhydraulics.com/images/calculators/motor_calc.htm
20gpm at 2500psi requires 19hp motor. That's why it is universally accepted to use two stage pumps. I had no knowledge about this month ago, when I started to gather parts for my build. For example, take this model: https://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydra...lic-Pump-Dynamic-GP-CBN-110-P-C-9-7503-11.axd
11gpm at low pressure, 3,4gpm at high. These numbers are @3600rpm. And so on, every two stage pump has two numbers, 11/3,4; 20/6; etc. When you see catalogs or webshops, usually in name is only biggest number, low stage gpm, for high stage you need to read technical description. Hope this helps.
Ok, if I may, I have a question - have you decided about moving part clearances? Sliding sides with or without grease? If with grease, covers to protect from slag and another dust?
 
Yes I have in respect to the moving parts clearance. I am debating if I need or want bronze Wear plates, and if I use them how to I mount them and how do I account for wear during use. as I am assuming they will be free floating between the slide and the frame????? Grease yes. How much space not sure was going to tighten the were plate till they made light contact and then check for deflection. As for component protection all High-pressure lines well be 5/8 stainless steel tubing bent to fit. Fittings will be Swagelok. Pump, motor, tank will be enclosed in base. any rubber hose will be run in 1 1/4 conduit so if it does leak or spray the flow will be directed to the ground and not a mist across the shop. and yes I will be Fabing a slag shield.
What are your thoughts on a filter on the return I think mine is rated for like 250 psi.
Thanks Jerry
 
I've been told there is no real need for wear plates between the slide and frame. Just a small space, enough so the crossbar will move up 'n down. Perhaps some grease to help prevent corrosion? Since the return line pumps into a vented tank there's no real pressure there. For the filter you might try this item on Amazon: B01CMM8GSQ should work just fine.
 
The filter you linked to should work just fine. Once you get your press up 'n running you'll never even consider purchasing a commercial press.
 
Ken H> said:
The filter you linked to should work just fine. Once you get your press up 'n running you'll never even consider purchasing a commercial press.
Click to expand...
Thanks' Ken and all the others providing guidance here. and I love your optimism. and the way yall bring up points I never even considered. can't say thanks enough.
And in the spirit of questions. Do I need to consider a 5 hp mag starter?? or a mag switch??
 
Anytime I can help I'm more than happy to. I'm trusting Stacy and other folks are monitoring this thread to throw out a caution if I miss something.

A 5 hp 1ph motor will draw around 25 to 30 FLA on 240 vac, and as such it really needs a starter of some type. The FLA (Full Load Amps) will be when you're pressing the full tonnage of press. Since the no load current is less than 10 amps, the starting amps will be in the 30 to 40 amp range. $50 is about the least expensive starter on Amazon I found B0BX564HML (just do a google search, or put the item number in the Amazon search bar). There is also a $70 starter for 7.5 hp which gives more "head room" on the starter. B09GBK2ZM2
 
Ken H> said:
Anytime I can help I'm more than happy to. I'm trusting Stacy and other folks are monitoring this thread to throw out a caution if I miss something.

A 5 hp 1ph motor will draw around 25 to 30 FLA on 240 vac, and as such it really needs a starter of some type. The FLA (Full Load Amps) will be when you're pressing the full tonnage of press. Since the no load current is less than 10 amps, the starting amps will be in the 30 to 40 amp range. $50 is about the least expensive starter on Amazon I found B0BX564HML (just do a google search, or put the item number in the Amazon search bar). There is also a $70 starter for 7.5 hp which gives more "head room" on the starter. B09GBK2ZM2
Click to expand...
I picked up the starter should be here tomorrow. Trying to decide what lovejoy joy coupling to use the L075 or the L090 Both my motor and pump have a 5/8 shaft but I cant find and documentation as to the diff of those 2 couplings as they both will do 5/8 shaft must have to do with HP. .
Next question what height do I want to have the Lets call it anvil part of the press from the floor. I was thinking work to be done 46 to 48 inches off the floor.
Thaoughts
 
Looks like the difference between the LO75 and LO90 are the hp ratings. The following is from the LoveJoy website says " Our LO90 sizes are good for engines from 8 hp up to about 25 hp. For engines between 3 and 8 hp, use an LO75 size." Note those numbers don't seem to be for electric motors. Remember, it does take more gasoline engine hp than it does electric motor hp - perhaps 2-1/2 times more gas hp than electric? I think I might go with the LO90 for the 5hp electric motor hp.
 
Thanks for the info. I called Lovejoy and they said the only diff is the length of the individual halves of the coupler. Torque is managed by the Correct spider.
I have an open center hydraulic valve, But I am thinking I need a closed center. Any thoughts???
 
I fins online that "With an open center system, flow is continuous and pressure is intermittent – which is contrary to a closed center system where the flow is intermittent and the pressure continuous". My take is for a press the open center is best since the pump runs all the time flowing the fluid with pressure intermittent. The open center means that when the valve is in the center or neutral position the valve is open to tank allowing the fluid to circulate back to the tank without the pressure relief valve to bypass the fluid.

Here's a good link explaining the open control valve: https://summit-hydraulics.com/open-center-vs-closed-center-hydraulic-systems/

A couple of lines that seems to to explain nicely:
The fixed displacement pump that is used in an open centre system
A closed center system does use a more expensive variable displacement pump

Since a fixed displacement pump is used in a hydraulic press I would think an open center would always be sued.
 
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Thank Ken
Ya man I have watched 10 or so Vids explaining Valve and types open, closed, transfer etc. and my valve is a detent type. open center. In what I was understanding is when you let go of the handle the valve automaticity goes back to the home position. (ram all the way open) This I don't want. I want it to stay put when I let go. if I bump it a tad, I just want it to move a tad and stay put. I'm not sure an open center valve will do that. Thoughts???? The handle on mine is spring return when I pull down but locks in a detent when I push it up, Mabee it is spring coming up as well while under load (or pressure I'm not sure???
Thanks Jerry
 
I'm not sure what you're saying there. For operating a press you want the level to spring return to center (neutral) position allowing fluid to recirculate back to tank. Pull lever down you want the cylinder to go down. Release control lever you want it to spring back to center allowing cylinder to stay in position. Push lever up, you want the cylinder to retract. For safety you wouldn't want the lever to stay in down position causing the cylinder to go down if you took your hand off. You want spring return on BOTH up and down positions. Only position you want the lever to stay in with your hand off lever is the center (neutral) position so the cylinder will stop moving.

Since your level has a detent that locks the lever in the up position I'd look for a different control valve. From my understanding the lever position has nothing to do with open or closed. That only pertains to the center position, with an open valve allowing the fluid to recirculate without high pressure tripping the pressure relief valve. The pressure relief valve (PRV) is the adjustment to determine what your max pressure is for the press. 2550 psi is a good place allowing 25 ton with your 5" cylinder.
 
That is exactly what I am saying, my Valve is an open center with a detent. so, when I pull down and release it goes right to neutral via a spring but if I push up it stops and stays in the up position via a detent. So, I think I need an open center valve but with spring returns not detents do you agree??? or do you think it should be a closed center with spring returns??? also, you mentioned the pressure. I was planning to install a 3500-psi oil filled gauge on the pressure side to the cylinder from the control valve to monitor load. do you agree with this as well as placement?? or do I want the Gauge between the pump and the control valve. or do I want one on each side of the control valve. Hey Ken Thank you for all your patience in answering these Questions. It is appreciated beyond words. On a side note, have you looked at the new Coal Iron works H frame press and how Non substantial the frame is. makes me feel like I am overbuilding the Bee Jesus out of mine???
Thaks Jerry
 
panzerjunky said:
So, I think I need an open center valve but with spring returns not detents do you agree???
Click to expand...

Yes, that is exactly what I think you need, open center with spring return from each side to center (neutral) position

panzerjunky said:
install a 3500-psi oil filled gauge on the pressure side to the cylinder from the control valve to monitor load.
Click to expand...

Yep, that's where I've got my pressure gauge installed. I actually installed a Street Tee like this Amazon item #B09Y16M3Z6. This is rated at 2850 psi which should be good. have you looked at the new Coal Iron works H frame press and how Non substantial the frame is.

panzerjunky said:
have you looked at the new Coal Iron works H frame press
Click to expand...

I had not looked at the new Coal Iron presses. When I purchased my Coal Iron press the "H" frame is the one I ordered based on them saying it was a 12 ton press. It turned out to be only a 9 ton press since it had a 3" cylinder - that's 9 ton. My press was only 8 ton since the pressure was set at 2250 psi, not the required 2550 psi to give the full 9 ton. Looking at the "12" ton it's hard to tell if they're using a 3.5" cylinder or not.

Otherwise I think the press frame is just fine. It uses 2"X1/4" angle which is plenty strong enough for 12 ton. I changed to a 4" cylinder to allow 12 ton at 2,000 psi. I've even pushed it to 2500 psi for 16 ton without any visible strain on the frame. I normally run at 14 ton with comfort.
 
So Ken
Just messing around I removed the detent ball from my valve, and it now acts Just like i want ,a closed center spring return do you see an issue with that???
Thanks Jerry
 
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