Forum Strengths Weaknesses & forming Relationships

This is a very interesting topic. I can't recall it being presented quite so clearly before.

I can understand the idea of feedback going in the FEEDBACK forum and reviews going in Knife Reviews & Testing, but people don't think that way. If there is a manufacturer forum, they will look to go to that forum with all their questions.

If I buy a car from a dealer, I don't bring complaints to the Better Business Bureau and repairs to the garage down the street, at least, not until I've given the dealer a chance to handle it.

In many of these forums, we even see off-topic posts that belong in the Community Center or Political Arena, which reflects the affection people have for "their" forum, which becomes like an online club for them. This can really distort the focus from the quality of the product to the quality of the manufacturer's representatives! What resources can and will a manufacturer set aside to deal with this?

We've had other knife companies here who closed their forums, and the closings weren't always a friendly parting. It is not something to commit to lightly. The company needs to realize it is a relationship even more sensitive than traditional one-way advertising, where you send a message but don't have to answer customer razzes when they don't like it.

Remember too that Kershaw did not come here to open a forum. Kershaw questions came up on the General Knife Discussion from many enthusiastic customers.

Thomas W showed up later to answer those questions from time to time, but only slowly came around to the idea of a permanent forum, and later got us used to the idea that he personally would not be here every day to answer every question.

What if the original Kershaw representative did not have his knowledge or authority, would the forum have done as well?

It would definitely pay for a manufacturer to research the perils and benefits of getting into this, and thoroughly, before committing to it. Leaving in defeat is a tough option.
 
OregonEdge said:
I think a lot of us try to cool off an issue by saying something like "Kershaw will take care of you, call their customer service, blah blah blah".

If I had just a minimum suggestion (and this is just 1 opinion), I would have the following:

1. Complaints required to be in the general "good, bad, ugly" section away from the Kershaw forum

2. Reviews kept in a separate sub forum for all manufacturers
(both of which are available here, but not always used).

3. The Kershaw forum kept to product inquiries, discussions of new products, features... upcoming releases, stories... all of which do NOT have to always be positive

I'm not saying the Kershaw forum can't have negative issues where peple are looking for advice, or critiques on producte features we'd like to see etc. But I would like to see less issues that should truthfully be one on one between customer and manufacturer.

Imagine if every customer phone call to Kershaw customer service had 100 people listening in at any given time. Would that make sense?
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I think those are dandy ideas. I'd also like to see a Cantina sort of forum. We tend to get off topic fairly regularly. It would nice to have a place to tell short people jokes, razz OL, talk about drinking and glue sniffing and all of that fun stuff we love so much.....just a thought.
 
Would you like to have a Cantina attached to every manufacturer forum? Or should we be using the Community Center and similar forums for off-topic posts? Having two or three forums (sales) for many manufacturers will expand the forum list tremendously.

To return to my car dealer analogy, I would go to him for any car problems, but not to discuss the weather or the war in Afghanistan.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
...To return to my car dealer analogy, I would go to him for any car problems, but not to discuss the weather or the war in Afghanistan.
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There's a war in Afghanistan???...Dang, I guess I should watch/read the news alittle more often...No wonder it's getting harder and harder to find good "Affi" weed now-a-days.:D.:D.

Actually, I do like this forum just the way it is, but it would be nice to have a "Kershaw knives for sale/trade" as a sub-forum here...Like a couple other forums have.
 
riffraff said:
"Forumers?" :eek: My built-in forum spell-checker (Firefox) is having a tough time with that one. ;)

Of course, it thinks "Kershaw" is misspelled, too. :D

Back on topic, though...it's hard to imagine how a manufacturer can have a problem with forum posts. I should think that, with most complaints anyway, a simple, "Give CS a call," should suffice. Now, that being said, how Customer Service handles that call is another matter. If it's a legitimate complaint, and they just blow off the caller, then certainly one would expect to hear about in a forum.

I hate over-simplifications, (and I hate this following line) but the old adage "the innocent have nothing to fear," keeps running through my head whilst reading this thread. Perhaps that's naive of me, but I still think the goodwill shown by a manufacturer on these and other forums goes a long way towards cementing customer loyalty. And there's many people out there that read these threads and never, ever post; many don't register at all. Couple that with Google's ability to correlate searches with what their spiders find in these forums, and you've got an audience much larger than what it appears on the surface.
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My Firefox is having trouble with forumers as well, though I've added Kershaw to the dictionary. The two things that help Kershaw here are: end-user support and endorsement (overwhelming) and manufacturer/company/designer support of products.

example: Chris Reeve just took a BIG hit in my eyes because in a VERY heated discussion over the durability of their products, and blatant references stating in a nutshell "false advertising by CRK" the company never once responded. To me what that says is that it must be true, and by ignoring it, CRK is hoping the problem will disappear. Quite simply, the only people supporting the Green Beret knife were some fans and owners of CRK products. Now in my eyes, if the manufacturer is not willing to come out in the open and support their product, why should I buy it?

Now if I get the money to buy a ZT 0100 and it doesn't do everything advertised by Steve the ZT rep and product manager here (at 5:45) (shot with glock [9mil?], stick into a crevice in a cinder block wall and climb over the top, and cut through the trunk of a car) and I know that if it does not perform as advertised, I'll get a new knife from Kershaw, because they will back whatever claims they make for their products.
 
Bookworm said:
example: Chris Reeve just took a BIG hit in my eyes because in a VERY heated discussion over the durability of their products, and blatant references stating in a nutshell "false advertising by CRK" the company never once responded. To me what that says is that it must be true, and by ignoring it, CRK is hoping the problem will disappear. Quite simply, the only people supporting the Green Beret knife were some fans and owners of CRK products. Now in my eyes, if the manufacturer is not willing to come out in the open and support their product, why should I buy it?
.
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wished I hadn't missed that one. I would always think there's a possibility that a manufacturer might play possum by assuming that their knives speak for themselves... OR that they have so much business they don't need to explain themselves to such a small %. Either way, that's very bad on here.
 
OregonEdge said:
wished I hadn't missed that one. I would always think there's a possibility that a manufacturer might play possum by assuming that their knives speak for themselves... OR that they have so much business they don't need to explain themselves to such a small %. Either way, that's very bad on here.
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The problem there was that unlike, say the Busse FFBM, it seemed the only thing the Green Beret had to say for itself was "OW! That hurts!"
 
Esav Benyamin said:
Would you like to have a Cantina attached to every manufacturer forum? Or should we be using the Community Center and similar forums for off-topic posts? Having two or three forums (sales) for many manufacturers will expand the forum list tremendously.

To return to my car dealer analogy, I would go to him for any car problems, but not to discuss the weather or the war in Afghanistan.
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Never mind. I had to reread the original post. It's a good point.

Another thought: People who hang around in a forum and have the off topic conversations (read: the regulars) are often the people who step up in the absence of the Mod. When Thomas is gone several of us step up to answer the easy questions. It seems that many non paying members don't bother to search when it is enabled and obviously can't when it is disabled so we get the same questions over and over. Having a bunch of folks hanging around all the time can be beneficial. I dunno, end thought.

OE, you have opened an interesting can of worms here.... lots to think about.:thumbup:
 
I think any manufacturer or seller participating in a unmoderated forum has some very difficult issues to deal with. A single determined person can dramatically change the nature of any formum in a negative way. Sometimes responding to such a person only makes things worse be lending credence to what could very well be completely unsubstantiated attacks, or at least prolonging the dialog. And the larger the company and it's distribution, the more likely that there will be a real problem that can turn negative, and the more likely it is that they will run into a determinedly negative person who simply wants to do as much damage as possible.

Of course, there are a lot of potentially positive aspects as well: being able to build loyalty and reputation, enhance customer communications, etc. But it is also true that if you run into a negative situation, it will be much more influential than multiple positive situations.

I think this forum may be the single best example of a company managing a public forum that I have seen. Even given that, it has not been without it's share of incidents that might make a lesser company simply decline to participate. I think this forum succeeds because of some very special personalities and an overwhelming positive product lineup with great customer support. I don't think it would work for every company, and in fact most companies decline to participate because it is very, very difficult to do well.

BTW, a big thanks goes to the Kershaw folks who do make this possible, as well as the regulars that make it entertaining.
 
"Here, man, mellow out. Here, take this." [pause] "No, wait a minute don't take that."

"Hey, man; what was that you gave me?"

"Man, that was the most acid I ever saw anyone take at one time, man. Ho, ho, ho; man, I hope you're not planning on doing anything for the next couple of months."
 
Esav Benyamin said:
Would you like to have a Cantina attached to every manufacturer forum? Or should we be using the Community Center and similar forums for off-topic posts? Having two or three forums (sales) for many manufacturers will expand the forum list tremendously.
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1 subforum to answer brand specific questions. Both good and bad.
1 subforum to introduce new items/have giveaways/member knife pictures
1 subforum to joke around with the regulars (maybe where I can say DA** sometimes and not get Glockmanned :D ) Cantina as you say
1 subforum for selling/trading of said brand

Esav, is something like that possible?
It sure would cut down on the number of pages to flip if you don't
have search capability. Not that some peeps bother to look anyway.
As spiralarchitect said above, it might cut down on the same questions
over and over.
But if I was looking for a pic of a black aluminum Speed Bump it would
narrow down which forum to go to immediately.

This might help out Thomas/Tim/Tiff/Dann too, as he/she could look at subforum #1 and
if any questions or actions need to be taken, he/she could get in there and
get out without having to go through so many threads of other stuff.

mike
 
For a few years, I was the moderator of the forums sponsored by a computer components distributor. In the vast majority of cases, the discussions were to do with what components to get, what to avoid and other customer service issues that arose. When certain 'negative' individuals would spout off, they were politely directed to customer service. If the negativity continued, they were reminded that coming into a companies forum and complaining about the company, was akin to being invited into a person's home and complaining about the way that they serve dinner. If the individual still didn't get the idea, I would simply ban them. Overall, despite the occasional 'turkey', the forum members shared their knowledge and had fun doing it.

My conclusion to the above experience, is that a well run and moderated forum can add to corporate prosperity, whereas conversely, a poorly moderated forum can and usually does descend into anarchy that negatively reflects on the corporation. For the record, I consider BladeForums in general, to be well run and moderated. As for the Kershaw forum, I purchased three additional Kershaw knives, largely due to the existence of the forum.
 
2brothers said:
1 subforum to answer brand specific questions. Both good and bad.
1 subforum to introduce new items/have giveaways/member knife pictures
1 subforum to joke around with the regulars (maybe where I can say DA** sometimes and not get Glockmanned :D ) Cantina as you say
1 subforum for selling/trading of said brand

Esav, is something like that possible?

mike
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Anything is possible, but my own preference is for One Forum to rule them all, One Forum to find them, One Forum to bring them all and with the threads to bind them.

Look at it this way. If you have 2 or more forums for one manufacturer, you may think you've distinguished between them, but you know how threads drift. You will have overlapping discussions and the only way to keep up with everything is to read them all. In that case, put them all together in the One Forum. :)

Look what's happpened to the Exchange. I don't mind the Busse family having their own sales forum, because I'm not interested in those knives. But now Buck is separate, too, and I routinely forget to check them. They are no longer in the individual for sale forum that I usually hit.

Same for off-topic. That's why we have Community Center and Whine & Cheese. But no, forums like Busse and Himalayan Imports chatter among themselves as if they don't have anything to say to the rest of Bladeforums. Can you say "clique"?
 
Esav Benyamin said:
Anything is possible, but my own preference is for One Forum to rule them all, One Forum to find them, One Forum to bring them all and with the threads to bind them.

Look at it this way. If you have 2 or more forums for one manufacturer, you may think you've distinguished between them, but you know how threads drift. You will have overlapping discussions and the only way to keep up with everything is to read them all. In that case, put them all together in the One Forum. :)

Look what's happpened to the Exchange. I don't mind the Busse family having their own sales forum, because I'm not interested in those knives. But now Buck is separate, too, and I routinely forget to check them. They are no longer in the individual for sale forum that I usually hit.

Same for off-topic. That's why we have Community Center and Whine & Cheese. But no, forums like Busse and Himalayan Imports chatter among themselves as if they don't have anything to say to the rest of Bladeforums. Can you say "clique"?
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Esav, you make some very good points, especially about not getting too crazy with multiple forums for one manufacturer. Drift, overlap, too many forums to check on constantly. You also make a good point about not getting too "clique-y". The only response I would have to that would be that, despite bold warnings in the whine and cheese forum, if the guys here at the Kershaw forum tried to poke and kid around the way they do here over at whine and cheese, some people just wouldn't get it, and you'd end up with hurt feelings and lots of unnecessary bashing. I could be wrong, but I feel there is an advantage to people who are familiar with each other being able to kid around in a smaller, more comfortable environment, rather than out in "public" (read: whine and cheese) where not everybody is on the same page.

2 cents, 2 cents, that's all:)

Cheers,
Jon
 
Esav Benyamin said:
Anything is possible, but my own preference is for One Forum to rule them all, One Forum to find them, One Forum to bring them all and with the threads to bind them.
Click to expand...

Here, here! Please remember, if it ain't broke, don't fix it! We worked so hard to get the Kershaw sub-forum, let's just enjoy it for a while...

And guys, we have "cantina". It's called Pirate's Cove! Almost anything goes there! You just have to have a paid membership.
 
by Esav Benyamin
Anything is possible, but my own preference is for One Forum to rule them all, One Forum to find them, One Forum to bring them all and with the threads to bind them.

nygiantsfan3342 said:
Here, here! Please remember, if it ain't broke, don't fix it! We worked so hard to get the Kershaw sub-forum, let's just enjoy it for a while...

And guys, we have "cantina". It's called Pirate's Cove! Almost anything goes there! You just have to have a paid membership.
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Agreed... 100%...
 
jonnymac44 said:
... despite bold warnings in the whine and cheese forum, if the guys here at the Kershaw forum tried to poke and kid around the way they do here over at whine and cheese, some people just wouldn't get it, and you'd end up with hurt feelings and lots of unnecessary bashing. I could be wrong, but I feel there is an advantage to people who are familiar with each other being able to kid around in a smaller, more comfortable environment, rather than out in "public" (read: whine and cheese) where not everybody is on the same page.

Cheers,
Jon
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Ha ha ha ha ha ... you just have to spend more time over there to teach those whiney, cheesy people how to take it! :D

Trust me, they are all on that same page. :p

You can still kid around on the Kershaw forum, and in that context, keeping it a bit more polite is actually an advantage.
 
I don't know how you all misunderstood me. I like having a Kershaw forum, but one Kershaw forum, not a bunch of overlapping miniforums for any manufacturer.
 
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