Forum Strengths Weaknesses & forming Relationships

Esav Benyamin said:
Anything is possible, but my own preference is for One Forum to rule them all, One Forum to find them, One Forum to bring them all and with the threads to bind them.
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Esav Benyamin said:
Would you like to have a Cantina attached to every manufacturer forum? Or should we be using the Community Center and similar forums for off-topic posts? Having two or three forums (sales) for many manufacturers will expand the forum list tremendously.
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I guess I misunderstood you. I thought you were asking if we would like that. :confused:

I was thinking more on the lines of:
A. Kershaw Forums
.....1. Specific Questions
.....2. New Items/Giveaways/Your Pictures
.....3. Joke Cantina
.....4. Selling/trading Area

Sorry if I wasn't clear.

mike
 
Esav Benyamin said:
Ha ha ha ha ha ... you just have to spend more time over there to teach those whiney, cheesy people how to take it! :D

Trust me, they are all on that same page. :p

You can still kid around on the Kershaw forum, and in that context, keeping it a bit more polite is actually an advantage.
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LOL, I hear ya Esav.:thumbup:
 
Esav Benyamin said:
We've had other knife companies here who closed their forums, and the closings weren't always a friendly parting. It is not something to commit to lightly. The company needs to realize it is a relationship even more sensitive than traditional one-way advertising, where you send a message but don't have to answer customer razzes when they don't like it.

Remember too that Kershaw did not come here to open a forum. Kershaw questions came up on the General Knife Discussion from many enthusiastic customers.

Thomas W showed up later to answer those questions from time to time, but only slowly came around to the idea of a permanent forum, and later got us used to the idea that he personally would not be here every day to answer every question.

What if the original Kershaw representative did not have his knowledge or authority, would the forum have done as well?

It would definitely pay for a manufacturer to research the perils and benefits of getting into this, and thoroughly, before committing to it. Leaving in defeat is a tough option.
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The road here for me personally has had many high's and lows. I've kicked myself for getting involved (thanks STeven) more times than I can count, and I've requested this sub-form be shut down over the recent past. You all know that I've said I'm not the right man for the job, but there is no one else, so here I am, back for more.

As I sit here today, I say that it's been worth it, and I'm really happy with how the Kershaw sub-forum has developed. I believe it's raised our brand awareness with this portion of the knife community, and has possibly even done more positive than I even know. Yes there is risk, and I've probably said much more than I should have to you all over the years, but it's important to me that you all get some insight in what we do. Also what's the point of a sub-forum if you don't open the shades and let you all get a peek at what we do and who we are.


We've gotten ripped on the forums, and there have been things said that are hurtful and even untrue, and that has pushed me into a position on just not answering every question, or responding to threads I find offensive or disagree with.

I can completely understand why manufacturer's don't participate in a public form, the risks outweigh the pro's in some cases, and one wrong post can send you reeling. Heck, I post incognito these days, and am gonna keep it that way. I feel it's safer.
acourvil said:
I think this forum may be the single best example of a company managing a public forum that I have seen. Even given that, it has not been without it's share of incidents that might make a lesser company simply decline to participate. I think this forum succeeds because of some very special personalities and an overwhelming positive product lineup with great customer support. I don't think it would work for every company, and in fact most companies decline to participate because it is very, very difficult to do well.
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See this comment is very gratifying to read, and I really appreciate hearing this. We'll keep plugging along here, and with all your contined participation, we can keep this KAi USA forum moving full speed ahead.
 
Thanks Thomas...
I think I tried to start a thread like this one other time and it died before it started (maybe I didn't choose the right words). I've really appreciated reading all the comments on this... maybe the timing on was better this time.

A number of things said have really made me think on levels I hadn't before

thanks everyone
 
svrider3 said:
Yes, Thanks Steven. ;)


Glad your request was denied. :D




We don't want "no one else".
Thanks for putting up with us Coach and hanging in here with us. :thumbup:
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More dittos for me too!!:D

Thomas, any chance you'll PM me with that incognito alter-ego of yours so I can still be aware of when I'm reading something from you???;)
 
2brothers said:
I guess I misunderstood you. I thought you were asking if we would like that. :confused:

I was thinking more on the lines of:
A. Kershaw Forums
.....1. Specific Questions
.....2. New Items/Giveaways/Your Pictures
.....3. Joke Cantina
.....4. Selling/trading Area

Sorry if I wasn't clear.

mike
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I sort of agree with this. Although I wouldn't make it quite as seperated, I would simply have a general area and a giveaway area for each manufacturer, or at least for Kershaw. There are so many giveaways around here that a dedicated subsection for it seems like a reasonable thing to do.
 
OregonEdge said:
. . .Here are some major points that you may or may not agree with:

1. In the case of these sub forums, I think product reviews (most specifically negative) should be located in an alternate area, away from the brand sub forum which should be primarly constructive discussion relating to issues which often can't be defended until a manufacturers reputation could be undully damaged. Manufacturers have policies in place which should be first point of contact. While I appreciate Kershaw's 'above and beyond" willingness to continually help mediate these disputes, I think they assume too much risk. By not having more control or direct channels that create opportunities for them to offer their unparalled customer service to deflate issues. Issues that often create emotional drama before they even have a chance to respond.

2. I think the biggest strength or value to enthusiasts or the manufacturer is the building of relationships with the customer and bringing collectors together to engage in constructive conversation and fellowship. This seems to me to have a great return to the manufacturer, and the end user.

3. The biggest risk, as I see it is damage control which results from either a hasty negative review, or clashes/debates that result across sub forums of other manufacturers, or just overly emotional debate within members of the same forum. . .
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When you are going about any action, remind yourself what nature the action is. If you are going to bathe, picture to yourself the things which usually happen in the bath: some people splash the water, some push, some use abusive language, and others steal. Thus you will more safely go about this action if you say to yourself, "I will now go bathe, and keep my own mind in a state conformable to nature." And in the same manner with regard to every other action. For thus, if any hindrance arises in bathing, you will have it ready to say, "It was not only to bathe that I desired, but to keep my mind in a state conformable to nature; and I will not keep it if I am bothered at things that happen. ~ Epictetus, "The Enchiridion" translated by Elizabeth Carter

I find agreement in your first point that breaking up into more specific subforums would be a good thing. I'm all for organization. It would make finding information much easier. However, I have a problem with wanting to do this to somehow protect a manufacturer. I suggest this is pandering and my concern is itwould only lower the value of this or any forum.

Your second point is well said. It is a wonderful opportunity for both consumer's and manufacturers.

Your third point seems the embodiment of pandering predicted from your first point. I say the manufacturers are big boys that knew the risks they took simply by going into business and moreso due to the specific products they create. I would imagine in the grand perspective of things the harshest critcism on here has no where near the weight and liability of criticism from sources outside of here.

I strongly feel that a manufacturer's presence on here or any other forum has benefits that far outweigh any risks. I would go even further to say that the benefits lost from not haveing a presence on a consumer forum amount to a detriment. I also know some manufactureres know this and that is why they are here.

Imagine how a Rough Rider, who many people are now saying things like, "its ok for $10.", could greatly benefit from a presence on here. Where as say a company like Frost, by staying away only increases the appearance of "we don't care about our consumers, we just want to make things cheap and sell them." I am not suggesting that is their policy, but just as it is important to avoid impropriety, it is equally important to avoid the appearance of impropriety.

Yeah, people in here can be rough. So what. move on, don't bother replying, don't be bothered by it. Make the policies for posting and getting kicked out for bad behavior more severe if you must, but please don't start whitewashing stuff.
 
One of the main reasons I came to theses forums is product reviews. The negative product reviews are also one reason I buy Kershaws because I have seen Kershaw take care of customers here. Not allowing any negative reviews would remind me of some communist government that does not allow people to speak about about issues and I would never go to a forum that did that. It would just cry "I am a chicken" about the company. The bad product reviews should be listed with the good ones or this would be just like a worthless gun rag that only writes posative reviews. Kershaw being involved here has only made me more "brand loyal" to them.
 
BRASMAN said:
One of the main reasons I came to theses forums is product reviews. The negative product reviews are also one reason I buy Kershaws because I have seen Kershaw take care of customers here. Not allowing any negative reviews would remind me of some communist government that does not allow people to speak about about issues and I would never go to a forum that did that. It would just cry "I am a chicken" about the company. The bad product reviews should be listed with the good ones or this would be just like a worthless gun rag that only writes posative reviews. Kershaw being involved here has only made me more "brand loyal" to them.
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Amen Brother!! :thumbup:
 
netdude65 said:
If you are going to bathe, picture to yourself the things which usually happen in the bath: some people splash the water, some push, some use abusive language, and others steal.
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Do you regularly bathe with other people? Nevermind. I don't want to know.

OE, your post was well thought out and presented...
 
OregonEdge said:
I think my post is very clear... Not only have I watched forums, but I have contacted a few other knife companies and my observations are shared. So, regardless of kershaw... this IS an issue.

Constructive positive and negative feedback is wonderful, and I'm not challenging that (or anything for that matter). The risk involves MANY situations where hard feelings and emotional drama can span beyond a healthy debate to off line defamation of reputation or outright threats. I know that some of you are well aware of the difference.

I would like to also point out that I am not suggesting any situation with regard to Kershaw only. I'm raising an issue that this is still a relatively new avenue of PR that is largely unregulated and minimally controlled.

I appreciate your comments at a high level about this, and I'm sure you don't believe that this type of consideration is not an issue that could determine the growth of any manufacturer participation, and thus increased resources for those of us who are also enthusiasts.

Or, are you saying that it's all good ?
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First I will thank you again for a very deep and thought provoking post and support you in the fact this is an important topic and very well worth discussion.

I would like to ask a question here. You are concerned about the risks a knife manufacturer takes by having an online presence in a forum on here. Don't they have the same risks in the real world too? Is there equal concern there as well? I have heard countless times at the counter when either I was looking at a knife or someone else was and another party observes what is being looked at and says something like..."oh no, this other one is what you really want." I was once looking at a Kershaw Hawk a long time ago in a store and an old school fellow politely showed me a Wild Turkey and said, "This is all you really need, and proceeded to make a rather good case of it." I now own both models :) but the point is online life is going to mirror the real world for the most part. Even amongst my very best friends who enjoy many types of knives have there been some spirited and healthy debates and I have enjoyed them all. Maybe a solution to the online problem can be distilled from how this very same problem is dealt with in the real world?

I for one would like to see many other manufacturers put at ease enough and decide to create a presence here. I enjoy Thomas thoughts as much as I enjoy Sal Glesser's of Spyderco. They are credits to their professions and have impressed me as good men worth rubbing elbows with. I like knives of all kinds and would like this to become a "one stop shop" for healthy discussion of them all. How do we do this?

I will offer one possible solution: Start subforums for all the other manufacturers whether they are represented or not. Sort of a "if you build it they will come" theory. Try one or two as a test first. I am fairly certain that you will find them populated by both fans as well as harsh critics. However, I am reasonably certain nicknames and personalities like "OffsetLover", "KissLover", "VoyagerLover" etc. would appear. then I wonder how much more appealing a forum with enough fans built up would be to a manufacturer and find it less risky to take a more active part in it?

I do have one other question. You have said you have been in contact with other manufacturers about this and have related to us how they would rather avoid the dramas that can and will erupt on here from time to time, valid or not, that raise the specter of risk in the form of bad PR. Have you asked them how they feel about sharing the forum with the other manufacturers? How much of having a presence in the absence and presence of "the competition" is in the decision to share or not share in a forum like this? I am sure they are used to this in the show arena, but does just the fact of being online make it seem riskier to them?

I still feel the benefits of an online presence in a forum like this far outweigh the risks. But I admit, I don't have the experience you claim in having known a manufacturer so intimidated by getting flamed so unfairly on here as to go bankrupt and out of business. If so maybe the person behind that company is not cut out for business? Its not easy, but then, Is BF that powerful?

As for this avenue of PR being largely unregulated and minimally controlled you gave a half answer to that already when you said, "I know that some of you are well aware of the difference [between healthy and unhealthy debate] and you can read my previous post in this thread on that subject.

Finally, to reply to your question of "Or, are you saying that its all good?" I would say good or bad its all here and that is as it should be and we are just going to have to trust in our fellow knife nut to know the difference.

Thanks for listening.
 
largely unregulated and minimally controlled.
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Land of the Free and home of the Brave you know.

Maybe companies should just be better like Kershaw is instead of just making everything cheaper and telling us how good it is. A company can get involved or stay out and it may or may not affect their sales. I say if the company is making a quality product and selling it at a decent price and provides true customer service they have nothing to fear. If they make junk and treat customers like trash then they do have something to fear.
 
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