frame lock cut outs

extrastout

extrastout

Joined
Mar 10, 2013
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Are the cut outs for making the knife easier to push aside and close the knife. To me the cut out weakens the lockup to that of a liner lock. Also does titanium need a cut out for it to spring closed, stainless steel liner locks don't seem to need it. I figure the machining process of cutting the lock would cause the spring affect in both liner and frame locks. Just seems kind of counter productive in having such a beefy lock and weaken it by cutting a big junk out of it. Have a good weekend!
 
The cut outs make it physically possible to push the lock aside. Without those cut outs, you would be trying to bend that 1/8th" (or 3/16", or whatever) chunk of titanium or steel out of the way using only your thumb - not gonna happen.

So, yes, you do need those cut outs.
 
Yes, they are needed and your argument is similar to others who don't trust framelocks. I can't find it now, but I remember seeing some testing of framelock failures and they all buckle right at the cutouts. Big surprise because like you mention, it is the weak point of the lock bar.
 
nickites said:
Yes, they are needed and your argument is similar to others who don't trust framelocks. I can't find it now, but I remember seeing some testing of framelock failures and they all buckle right at the cutouts. Big surprise because like you mention, it is the weak point of the lock bar.
Click to expand...

Like this one?

Emerson+HD7.jpg
 
Dammmmnnnn Dorito, I hope that wasn't one of your knives.

But like many have already stated, frame locks HAVE to have the cut out in order to function properly.

In order for a frame lock to really buckle I'm sure it needs to be under some pretty heavy use.

And remember it all depends on the knife itself.

For example, my M. Willumsen Urban Tactical has some thick ass Titanium handles and it would take a whole lot to make the lock side buckle.

All in all I love frame locks, especially Ti frame locks :D
 
The titanium that is left after the cut out, is still usually about as thick as a normal liner. Note on the picture above, the lock did not fail in the way that would cause harm. The blade still would not reach the users fingers.

Also, I would be willing to bet, no one could do that with their bare hands using a knife the way its supposed to be used for. Even if you spine wacked it as hard as you could, I doubt it would do that.

I do not know for sure, but I would say that was done by a machine slowly applying 800+ pounds of pressure.
 
That is a great picture! But as egally said it still would not cut you.....
I don't do anything with my knives that pushes the boundary of the lock. It you are using the knife correctly then most locks are safe. If you are going to be pushing the limits of the lock, why wouldn't you just use a fixed blade?
 
I'm more of a fixed blade guy and understand a folder is a broken knife. Just seems that a lot expensive folders considered high end, are using framelocks. Seems like it is a selling point that adds cost for no additional reward, besides being simple and cool looking IMO.
 
Don't see why it matters. If you really need to work your knife that hard, to the point that the lock bar would crumble under pressure, just go with a fixed blade.
 
Hate to disagree with Dorito but NO you don't need cut out's and their called relief cuts. I have a custom made STR (Steve Rice) Heman ti framelock no relief cut, at my request. My thumbs are not that strong and I can get it done no problem. I also have a few Mission MPF 3 which have a relief cut out of .0850 damn near a tenth of inch and I can handle those no problem.

Yes it does weaken the lock, try this. With the knife closed take your finger and put pressure on the top of the lock bar face essentially trying to push the lock bar down to the bottom part of the handle, where the line has been cut horizontal down the handle to allow the lock bar to slide over. If you can press it and get the bottom of the lock bar to touch the top of the bottom part of the handle, you ain't got much.

Lastly to the poster saying most liner locks are are as thick as the relief cuts, you haven't spent time with a digital caliper and handful of folders both liner lock and frame lock. Because while in some instances it may be close, most of the time I find the liner locks to be thicker than the relief cuts. Moreover steel is stronger than titanium, so the comparison of just thickness doesn't work as you would have to a much thicker titanium lock (relief cut) to be as strong as a thinner steel liner lock.

Look I like titanium frame locks, that is my preferred knife but I'm very picky about what I'll get because of relief cut thickness. There a lot of "hard use" folders out there that if someone sold me at that price with a relief cut that thin, I demand a refund. I've seen knives with relief cuts that are like 0.0200 of inch thick, or really should I say thin. One other thing titanium is a notch sensitive material so it responds better to long cuts as opposed to short ones, so relief cut thickness should be increased and also lengthened. I suspect their thin and short to save manf cost and to allow for the easiest opening and closing of the knife as possible.

My theory is most of these hard use knives floating around are either safe queens, or pocket queens with people babying them because they cost so much they don't want to mess them up. So you not going to see any real number of lock failures as people simply are not really using these knives much, carried alot, used little and gently. Now there are going to be some exceptions without question I know some of you are just beating the hell out of these things 24/7 in the depths of mortar and its never failed and the lock up is even earlier than when you got it, congrats on being the exception.

Just saying the whole ain't gonna happen thing, happens everyday for me. It's a matter of personal preference, it can and is being done.
 
I'm going to disagree, I've used frame locks and used them hard on a daily basis with zero issues. My Sebenza has been used for many things and is a user.
I've never had issues with them failing and would imagine it would take a whole lot to make them fail.
 
MikeC said:
Hate to disagree with Dorito but NO you don't need cut out's and their called relief cuts. I have a custom made STR (Steve Rice) Heman ti framelock no relief cut, at my request. My thumbs are not that strong and I can get it done no problem. I also have a few Mission MPF 3 which have a relief cut out of .0850 damn near a tenth of inch and I can handle those no problem.
Click to expand...

That's interesting. Do you happen to have any pictures of that knife? I'd be curious to see how the locking side is made. I've honestly never seen a framelock knife that didn't have some sort of cut-out on the lockbar.

Regardless, the fact that you had a knife custom made so that it could be opened without needing the usual cutout on the lockbar just proves that a knife can be made that doesn't need a cutout on the lockbar - it doesn't mean that those relief cuts aren't needed at all. Taking, say, an XM-24 or an SMF and just neglecting to mill out a relief cut on the lockbar is probably not going to work. Who knows, though; you might be able to get away with that treatment on, say, a Bradley Alias (which has a pretty small, thin lockbar in the first place).

MikeC said:
My theory is most of these hard use knives floating around are either safe queens, or pocket queens with people babying them because they cost so much they don't want to mess them up. So you not going to see any real number of lock failures as people simply are not really using these knives much, carried alot, used little and gently. Now there are going to be some exceptions without question I know some of you are just beating the hell out of these things 24/7 in the depths of mortar and its never failed and the lock up is even earlier than when you got it, congrats on being the exception.
Click to expand...

I always figured the reason you don't see many lock failures on expensive framelocks is because the people who are into knives and are willing to shell out for expensive customs / midtechs aren't generally the sort of people who go out of their way to abuse the living hell out of their expensive knives. It pretty much goes without saying that anything you are doing to your knife that is going to end in catastrophic lock failure (like that Emerson, posted above) is just pants-on-head-retarded and is something that's destined to break your folder, no matter how well it's made.
 
As long as you use a knife to cut things, you won't have a problem. If you like to smack the spine on things or stand on the handles, well a fixed blade might be better for your 'special' needs.
 
I agree with Dorito, for some reason the maker or company sees it as necessary and I do believe it helps with the lock up of the knife as far as being able to unlock it easier.
A good custom maker can make just about anything work.

As far as your lock failing because of the cut out - it's unlikely if you're using your knives as you should and not batoning your folders through wood and spine whacking them. If they're used for their intended purpose, whether it be hard or light use, it's extremely unlikely for the lock to fail like above.

The cut out may weaken the lock bar a little bit but not enough to cause a bad failure.

As long as the knife is used, not abused, you should be good to go.
 
Dorito Monk said:
It pretty much goes without saying that anything you are doing to your knife that is going to end in catastrophic lock failure (like that Emerson, posted above) is just pants-on-head-retarded and is something that's destined to break your folder, no matter how well it's made.
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:thumbup: I always hear "If you try to make something idiot-proof, someone will be stupid enough to challenge that...and win." It's like using a 6 ft pipe to give you extra leverage on a 1/4" drive ratchet, just buy the right tool for the job.

Chris Reeve never claimed a Sebenza would cut through a tank, that doesn't make it a crappy knife.
 
your fingers and or hand would break before you could somehow apply enough force to the blade to cause the lockbar to crumple like that.

there are a bunch of ways your knife would fail first. I'm not even sure how stupidly you would be using your knife to get the lockbar to fail like that. maybe using it as a loading ramp so your loaded dolly could get up a curb?

oh wait, I probably just baby my knives because I don't have an inch thick titanium lock with no cut out. that's gotta be it.
 
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