Framelock lockbar travel?

I am not sure if I agree. There are at least two things to consider. When a lockbar over travels due to heavy (but could be normal like in BB's case of use) pressure, it becomes difficult or even impossible to disengage single-handedly. Also, if the lockbar can travel all the way to the opposite side, it is not unreasonable to worry that over time it would over-travel more and more easily such that eventually lock rock would develop.
 
sharp_edge said:
I am not sure if I agree. There are at least two things to consider. When a lockbar over travels due to heavy (but could be normal like in BB's case of use) pressure, it becomes difficult or even impossible to disengage single-handedly. Also, if the lockbar can travel all the way to the opposite side, it is not unreasonable to worry that over time it would over-travel more and more easily such that eventually lock rock would develop.
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Just for clarity who are you refering to when you say you are not sure if you agree?
 
Maybe, the lack of a liner on the carbon fiber side could contribute to very hard cutting, wedging the lock bar over to the point it would cause lock stick, that would be impossible to unlock without a tool? In other words, frame flex would be the cause.
 
I'm with you Sharp_Edge, once it requires more than just extra pressure with my thumb it becomes a 'problem'. But like on my 0562 when the lock are slid over under heavy cutting it just took a little more muscle to unlock it, not a big deal:)
 
Interesting that some people will get in virtual shouting matches about locks that disengage easily (like when the knife is hammered into a tree trunk and fails when a 350 lb weight is hung from the handle), yet others dislike a lock that doesn't disengage easily.
 
jill jackson said:
Maybe, the lack of a liner on the carbon fiber side could contribute to very hard cutting, wedging the lock bar over to the point it would cause lock stick, that would be impossible to unlock without a tool? In other words, frame flex would be the cause.
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Possible. Depends on the carbon fiber. Usually its pretty rigid. But that rigidity would depend on the carbon to resin ratio. Hasnt someone expressed this as an issue though on later 0560 knives with a steel liner as well as the 0801 which is full ti?
 
All I know is that my current Edc, an FF Mordax, is locking up perfectly, and its been that way from day 1. Solid as a bank vault and no over travel or sticking. If you want perfect lockup, I would stay away from mass produced framelocks. I used to have several ZTs from the 0450 to the 0562cf to the 0801 that would all over travel quite a bit. I think theres just something about the mass production process that inevitably leads to quality control issues as the company tries to pump out as many knives as possible and tries to maintain a high level of quality. The knives will never all be perfect, and that leaves you the consumer at a disadvantage because you can never be 100% sure what you're going to get. Overtravel is not the biggest issue in my opinion, but then again it is nice to have a PERFECT knife:p Which is one of the reasons I gave up on ZTs a while back and went into the higher end range of production and mid tech frame locks. Specifically, to a Ferrum forge which has caused me to sell off all of the other frame locks I own. As others have already stated, framelocks and liner locks can be amazing IF THEY ARE DONE CORRECTLY. And unfortunately the companies who attempt to mass produce these locks are often times unable to do so without sacrificing consistency.

The other knives Ive never experienced an overtravel problem with are sebenzas and hinderers. There was a slight bit of lock stick if I used them hard for a long period of time but nothing I would consider to be over travel. And that's pretty impressive considering there was Ti directly contacting the blade tangs. One would think that this might lead to increased wear and excessive overtravel due to the difference in hardness, but such was not the case. Ultimately I beleive this came down to the tolerences of both knives being far greater than the average middle of the road production knife, meaning there wasn't any room for overtravel.
 
jill jackson said:
ZT 0804CF , bought last month

sziiv6.jpg


Lock up by flipping only:

2ewhd13.jpg


Lock up after thumb pressure:

2rogoc4.jpg
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This is absolutely as far as I can get this lockbar to go over, so I do believe it's really not defective. I would not worry about this knife ever moving over, so much it could fold with use. There's just not room, even if it would move further.
 
Pretty much why i just gave up on framelocks all together. Just got sick of dealing with things just like this, lock stick, lock slip, lock travel, graphite on the face, bar squeezing all the way over. It's always hit and miss, no matter what company and no matter what knife. Some knives never have issues but most do, It's the nature of the frame lock. Honestly think about it, it's a seriously primitive cheapo way to lock a blade in place, how about a bit of engineering creativity knife makers?? The Tri-ad, axis, ball bearing lock all required a bit of thought at least, and last much longer.
 
I saw the same thing on my recently purchased ZT 0801 and I had some lateral blade play on normal lockup. I could also push the lock bar as far as the pictures show pretty easily. I just sent it back to the Zero Tolerance warranty department to take a look at it.
 
`br4dz- said:
It's possible zt changed something. I just bought a brand new knife a couple weeks ago that has if the worst, go figure.
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Nah. it's been the norm for years now. I sent in an 0801 and the supervisor said it was inherent to the design, as all of the 0801's he examined exhibited this behavior. He swapped my 0801 for one that didn't move over as bad.
 
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I have two Benchmade titanium framelock folders, and they both lock up relatively early, and cannot be pushed across like those photos illustrate. IMO, if the lock can be pushed all the way across, then it has either worn out or is out of proper spec.
I also have liner locks, and they all lock up fine without this issue.
In fact, I have never owned a knife that exhibits this lock issue, and I have all framelock and liner lock folders.
 
robgmn said:
Interesting that some people will get in virtual shouting matches about locks that disengage easily (like when the knife is hammered into a tree trunk and fails when a 350 lb weight is hung from the handle), yet others dislike a lock that doesn't disengage easily.
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A lock shouldnt move like that when cutting cardboard. Cardboard is pretty easy on knives, and should be a must that every knife can cut through cardboard without issue. If you were carving wood and the lock moved like that, I wouldn't see an issue. I don't buy knives to cut up paper and look at them sit on the table.
 
This Spyderco Tuff , has a blade base cut very straight, straighter than the ZT 0804 and will not move no matter what I do.:confused:

24dixjo.jpg
 
I had never such problems with triadlock. Buy CS.:D

That thing stopped me from buying ZT.
 
I only have a several frame lock knives, Sebenza, Umnumzaan, Southard Tolk, Boker Exskelibur I, and Spydiechef. They are all full Ti frame lock knives. Among them, I can push the lock bar further than the original stop position only on Umnumzaan. This is probably due to the ceramic ball interface. I may be able to push it a little on Exskelibur if I push the lock bar really hard. But it seems because the frame on Exskelibur is very thin and can be distorted easily. On others, I cannot really move the lock bar from the original engagement point.

I am wondering if the issue arises from the synthetic scales, in which the stop pin can wiggle a tiny bit, thereby creating a small room between the blade tang and lock bar. ZT0770, which has carbon fiber scales without steel liners, does exhibit this issue.



Miso
 
I wonder about the lack of a liner being a factor too, because both the ZT'S I've had where I could easily push the lockbar across on, were carbon fiber no liner and my 0562cf with a liner won't move.
 
Mike45ACP said:
Did you send those back to ZT? Just wondering if it was repaired and your happy with results?

Mike
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I experienced this with a brand new 0450 as well. Contacted ZT and sent it in, I may have provided photos and video iirc. They sent me a completely new 0450 replacement and lockup was completely opposite of my original purchase, which is to say excellent.
 
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