Framelock lockbar travel?

[garyc01]

Can't for the life of me remember the custom maker last year I overheard say he changed his liner lock angles from 7-8 degrees to 11-12 degrees because of some issues after awhile.

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[PURPLEDC]

Pretty much why i just gave up on framelocks all together. Just got sick of dealing with things just like this, lock stick, lock slip, lock travel, graphite on the face, bar squeezing all the way over. It's always hit and miss, no matter what company and no matter what knife. Some knives never have issues but most do, It's the nature of the frame lock. Honestly think about it, it's a seriously primitive cheapo way to lock a blade in place, how about a bit of engineering creativity knife makers?? The Tri-ad, axis, ball bearing lock all required a bit of thought at least, and last much longer.

I disagree. The simplicity of a frame lock is desirable to many. And many will feel your choice in locks adds unnecessary complication for minimal improvements. I hear of the omega springs in axis locks breaking. IMHO a lot of gripes over framelocks could be avoided if people could break certain habits and implement some maintenance. I know for me I stopped using lubricants on my knives unless absolutely necessary. And 90% of all my troubles have ceased. Combine that with keeping your screws and pivots dialed in and tight and I am back to enjoying my knives rather than troubleshooting them.

 

[miso2]

I wonder about the lack of a liner being a factor too, because both the ZT'S I've had where I could easily push the lockbar across on, were carbon fiber no liner and my 0562cf with a liner won't move.

I agree. From my limited observations on ZT0770CF and Boker Exskelibur I, I suspect that it is either the flexibility of the scales or wiggling of the stop pin. I guess the latter would accompany a slight vertical blade play, which my 0770 has, but the former doesn't.


Miso

 

[Mick_1KRR]

I disagree. The simplicity of a frame lock is desirable to many. And many will feel your choice in locks adds unnecessary complication for minimal improvements. I hear of the omega springs in axis locks breaking. IMHO a lot of gripes over framelocks could be avoided if people could break certain habits and implement some maintenance. I know for me I stopped using lubricants on my knives unless absolutely necessary. And 90% of all my troubles have ceased. Combine that with keeping your screws and pivots dialed in and tight and I am back to enjoying my knives rather than troubleshooting them.

I agree it's nice and easy to use, but honestly just because it's desirable due to how easy you can close it doesn't mean it's a well designed piece of engineering. Axis locks springs have broken, but 1 in 500, on the other hand thousand upon thousands of framelock users complain and report issues about sticky locks, lock travel, slipping, wearing out, preventative measures etc. the list goes on. It's like we are trying to put a bandaid over his ancient form of knife lock to make it work simply cos "it's easy to use" Why not do what Demko did for cold steel, take an already proven design (back-lock) and IMPROVE on it, i'm sure someone out there can design a frame/liner lock with improvements so these things are an issue of the past. Look at Andrew Demko's latest lock (scorpion lock) looks almost as easy and fun to close as a frame lock with the strength of the Tri-ad lock. I think makers are stuck on the frame lock cos it's easy, plus it's so much easier to snag buyers by throwing in some carbon fiber, making a sprint run with rainbow colored G10, or any other visually appealing add-ons. I'd rather see functional improvements so you get a tool that last's without issues, and without having to be sent back to their shop for "maintenance" who the heck wants to send their knife away to be fixed up once every while. No thanks, but that's purely my opinion, and everyone is entitled to theirs so fair enough.

 

[FlaMtnBkr]

I disagree. The simplicity of a frame lock is desirable to many. And many will feel your choice in locks adds unnecessary complication for minimal improvements. I hear of the omega springs in axis locks breaking. IMHO a lot of gripes over framelocks could be avoided if people could break certain habits and implement some maintenance. I know for me I stopped using lubricants on my knives unless absolutely necessary. And 90% of all my troubles have ceased. Combine that with keeping your screws and pivots dialed in and tight and I am back to enjoying my knives rather than troubleshooting them.

You don't see these threads with other locks. A frame/liner lock is the only one that I've had close when I didn't want it to, multiple times, as well as wear out to the point of vertical play. They also require your thumb be in the blade path. They may appear to be simple but they have to be made exactly right or there are issues and you can have 2 of the same model knives where one works and the other has 1 or more of a handful of problems. There is also lots of talk about tuning and adjusting them and with the popularity of flippers they require lots of fine tuning to work well with a frame lock. The best flipper I have uses a lock that uses spring pressure to hold the blade closed instead of a ball detent and it is effortless to flip as well as unlocking and flipping closed. I have to think they are so popular because makers can start off making them without much engineering/CAD work and there is no patent to worry about instead of trying to license another design.

There have been AXIS lock omega springs that have broken but there are 2 in a knife and it will still work if one breaks. Plus a new one can be made easily at home with some wire and a pair of pliers. That can't be said with a frame lock and if it does break or wear out it has to be sent off and if the model is no longer being made it's likely not getting fixed. I would much rather have something that the only major problem that is reported with any type of frequency can easily be fixed at home. And yes I've done it, it was easy, and it's still working a decade later. Plus, if others started using the lock other types of springs can be used and the design can be modified and improved upon. I was hoping the patent was about to expire but it looks like, from what I can tell, the patent was essentially reworded and reissued and it's going to be good for quite some time. But Shirogorov licensed the design and I believe a few custom makers have as well so it can potentially be used.

Everyone is different though and I'm sure frame locks will always remain popular.

 

[Musashidin]

Incase anyone else has the same issue on a ZT, mine just came back after I sent it out for warranty repair. The blade play and lockup has been fixed and I am completely happy with the purchase now. I wouldn't hesitate to get another ZT model that is known for these issues and am considering a 0452.