Freehand sharpening pros: Is Wicked Edge Go worth it?

As far as the WE Go being limited to 200 and 400 grits... once you have the edge reprofiled aren't you just basically dealing with the scratches on the bevel/rough apex? Something that a strop and ceramic stone can handle after that (i.e. sharp maker)? Yes time consuming on refining

There are some magnificent examples of hand sharpened edges on this forum. The edges i see outside the forums looks like a 12 year old who has drank too much cough syrup had been doing it. Granted they can and a lot of times are razor sharp they just look like hell

I was going to state my point but I don't believe I have one

Disclosure I bought a we proII with the suitcase about 4 years ago and added more stones, strops, diamond spray etc. On very few knives I use the WE and use the spyderco sharpmaker with the diamond stones on 90% of my stuff.

I think my point is I like even bevels
 
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As one real-life example, with the right stone I can sharpen a blunted box cutter blade in less time than it takes to change it out for a fresh one--a quick shake of a stone on each side and it's back to gliding through corrugated like it's not even there. If cosmetics are your priority, it's hard to get better than a guided system with a full set of stones. If you view your knives as functional fashion and you want them as pretty and even as possible to maintain a look, then a guided system is probably the way to go, at least in the near term. If your chief concern is speed--getting back to the cutting task at hand because there's work to be done--hand sharpening quickly jumps to the forefront as the most viable strategy. And the good news is that the more you practice it, the closer to the results of guided sharpeners you get.

This is in no way a dismissal of guided sharpeners, but in general I have found the setup time and the tweaking/tuning involved to be more trouble than I'm willing to bother with unless I'm treating sharpening as a ritual instead of as a means to a productive end. Which is fine. A lot of people enjoy it at that level, just like I enjoy nerding out over pragmatic reductionism in tool design and use, case in point. :D

Ultimately, determining if the WE is worth it will depend on your goals and your comfort level. Just think through what it is that you really are looking to accomplish and why, and then ask yourself if the WE is the best solution for your circumstance or not. Horses for courses. :)
 
Pragmatic reductionism in tool design and use. I like that. Although I don't design tools, it's kind of what I've been gravitating towards in my tool usage over a few years. Basically minimalism and simplicity. I still think WE is a clever design, and glad there are folks out there making stuff like this. But.....there's that pragmatic reductionism thing. There's an appeal in building the skill to do basic/fundamental thing (like sharpening) by hand, so that you can do it anywhere, do it yourself, and are not dependent on a bunch of fancy and complex gadgets to get work done. Completely agree.
 
wvdavidr said:
I'm going to disagree with most of the posts. I think a guided system is the way to go. Although I can freehand fairly well, my results with the Wicked Edge or Edge Pro Apex will stomp my best freehand results. Also, my best freehand drawn line will lose to a ruler. Kinda the same thing!
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It's all good - sometimes I take my bike, sometimes my car to go to the nearby grocery store. Same with sharpening. There is no right or wrong answer here.
 
awestib said:
It's all good - sometimes I take my bike, sometimes my car to go to the nearby grocery store. Same with sharpening. There is no right or wrong answer here.
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Agree with that. Use the approach that works. My local/professional knifemaker dude, who can sharpen at the highest level of perfection by hand OR on his belt sanding setup, does this. He uses the belt sander for his high volume sharpening business, the belt sander is how he can afford to QUICKLY get a very high quality edge that has a consistent angle, and be able to charge customers what (to me) seems like a ridiculously reasonable rate for our area which is rather high cost of living. Typically like $7 for a knife or an axe, even if major reprofiling is involved, as he recently totally reprofiled a crappy axe for me and turned it into a real chopper for a measly $7. His belt sander in no way compromises the quality of his sharpening, all it does it enable him to get a high quality, consistent edge, and repeatable results, very fast, which of course is an advantage to his business. I totally get that and would do the same thing if I were him.

Similarly with guided systems like EP and WE. In no way do I look down on those, I see the case for using them (highly consistent angles, great results, and cosmetically perfect edges). I could theoretically still splurge for one someday, just because it looks FUN being able to put such a beautiful consistent edge on your knives. I totally don't NEED it, but yes it does look fun and appealing. :) But for now, my Sharpmaker provides good enough results for a semi-freehand/semi-guided type of system. When I want higher angle consistency, I can just keep using the Sharpmaker and settle for either a 15 degree or 20 degree edge. My local knifemaker recommends the Sharpmaker too as the best low-cost semi-guided type of sharpening system available, and he said the vast majority of blades that people use are just fine with one of those two angles anyway. In fact, when he's training people in his knife making and sharpening classes, he actually recommends Sharpmaker as a low cost simple starter system that gets good results and helps teach people the key concepts of sharpening. The sharpmaker is a great trainer, and also a great fallback system, when things don't go well freehand on my DMT stones.

So without knocking any of the other proven effective approaches and tools for sharpening, I still have to say my preference is somewhat similar to what 42 has articulated. It's just this desire to keep things simple, and to be able to do some things by hand without dependency on specialized gadgets, and to maintain a few old world craftsman skills. If nothing else, this will help on backpacking trips as I can better sharpen my tools without lugging a bunch of fancy sharpening gear along. :p I'd like to get to the point that I can get great, better-than-factory edges on my knives in terms of cutting performance--that's the only goal. Cosmetic perfection isn't important to me, because I'm not a knife collector at all, every single knife in my collection either gets used or sold off.
 
adamlau said:
Looks as if you found your answer, M maximus83 :)
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Well kinda. We're all agreed that there's several valid approaches to sharpening, and that doing it by hand has its value.

But doggone it--I'm still a mediocre freehand sharpener, and need to improve my technique. :eek: I think the DMT and stropping setup I have is good enough equipment wise. I have 2 sided DMT 10" bench stones covering EC/C/F/EF, and a nice 2-sided leather strop with an 8000 grit paste that I apply to one side. It has gotten me results that are at least as good as, and sometimes slightly better, than factory edges. So I'm going to focus on my technique rather than buying more junk.

For the pros here in the forum: what are the absolute hands-down best guidance and tutorials you've seen on freehand sharpening from diamond bench stones? I've watched some of the Carter videos, and others, clearly very impressive. But a lot of these guys use water stones, and some of them use different kinds of sharpening styles (scrubbing back and forth versus a single motion of slicing on the stone), and it quickly gets very confusing with all the contradictory approaches people are pushing. If I had a single, consistent set of videos in a tutorial showing good technique by a single person that knows what they're doing and uses a somewhat similar diamond stone setup, that would really help. I've looked at the stickies in the forum, etc., but surprisingly haven't yet found what looks like the authoritative tutorial to end all tutorials. :D Maybe I'm not looking hard enough...
 
Here's a pretty straightforward one. You can, for the most part, use whatever stroke you find easiest to keep a consistent angle at.

 
^ That is a good one and represents my own sharpening motions on waterstones. Namely, fast scrubbing to shape the edge (heavy slurry) and slower, more deliberate leading edge slices to refine (light slurry) or apex (no slurry). I prefer to include a refinement step before apexing in the plateau system. On diamond media (constantly watered), edge shaping remains more or less the same, though I am more careful with regards to avoiding the apex. Refinement and apexing in particular see predominantly trailing edge strokes across diamonds.
 
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As a side note, I attended a house party featuring the Mayweather-McGregor fight last night and was asked to sharpen a few Cutco kitchen knives belonging to the host during the undercards. With a small group of friends watching, I turned to a more traditional, ambidextrous approach while facing the spine. I made the session appear more complicated than it was for the crowd by modulating speed for no reason, using the three-finger test of sharpness, incorporating excessive cross patterns and switching hands more than was required. Though not particularly refined at roughly 15 dps on a GS 320, they were the best edges those folks had come across in years :)
 
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That was good, because it was simple. So he uses that scrubbing motion first, then followed by extremely light pressure slicing motion for finishing. I was fascinated that he said you don't want to form a burr, ever.

So, questions:
* Would this approach work on my DMT stones? I have some cheap crap stainless kitchen knives (made you know where :)) that I bought entirely to practice with. I'd love to get those to be able to push cut paper like he showed.
* Should I start with EC stone (220 mesh) and do the scrubbing approach to "distress the edge"? Then do shaping--also scrubbing motion--on another grid like C (325 mesh), then go to F or EF to do the slicing motion to finish the Apex?
 
To destress, you would simply draw the edge against diamonds to remove weakened metal and to create a reflective flat. That constitutes step one in the plateau system. You can destress on C. The second step involves shaping the edge bevel. You can shape on C. The third and final step is to apex (create a micro bevel) and refine it on either F or EF.
 
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Oh interesting, so he didn't show the "de-stress" step in much detail, just 2 slices across the stone. That was a little unclear the first time through. So I could try it this way, with a new/undamaged, but extremely mediocre factory edge.

1. De-stress. Draw the edge in a straight up perpendicular slicing motion across my C stone until edge is uniformly reflective.
2. Shape. Scrubbing motions on C stone as shown in video, pressing edge forwards into the stone until I get a primary bevel that's non-reflective.
3. Apex. Use the traditional slicing motions on F (or EF) stone to create a secondary/micro bevel and actually sharpen the blade.

Correct?
 
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As a minor point of clarification, it's "de-stress" rather than distress. It is removing fatigued metal from the apex rather than alarming it. :)

I think that particular element does get a little more attention than it necessarily deserves, BUT it's a good step for folks because it puts a reflective shine on the edge that serves as a visual guide during the sharpening process instead of potentially having non-reflective points that aren't getting hit by the stone and you have no idea that they aren't because they aren't shining. By making the whole edge reflective it makes it so those sorts of things can't hide from you during the shaping stage.

But yes, you've pretty much got the idea. Sharpening doesn't have to be complicated, though if you want it to be, that's easy to fix. :D :D :D
 
Ah, good clarification. I'll practice on my cheapo kitchen knives over the next week or so and update on how it goes.
 
I also sharpen freehand, but use an angle guide from time to time to re-set the bevel --an ancient BuckMaster that clamps to the back of the blade. It's no longer made but similar rigs are available.
 
@Maximus,

Without diminishing others, best tutorial will be Jason B's and HeavyHanded's.
Their videos and writings are what brought big step improvement on my free hand.
Jason video for example
Martin (HH) for example

Of course they have more ;)
 
I remember the old farmers carrying around a little old stone in their pockets and giving their pocket knives a few swipes during the day and they would cut everything with their knives, and they were dam sharp to! I am not great at free hand and it has took me a few years, but I can get my son's dozier sharp enough to gut and skin 3-4 deer before it need sharpening again. I kinda like the challenge of freehand but would still like to have a EP or WE. LOL
 
So I tried the above method tonight with some cheap kitchen knives. De-stress. Shape a primary bevel. Sharpen on a micro bevel. Got it to where it could push cut newsprint fairly cleanly, and definitely a much better edge than factory. Still not able to shave arm hair, I don't know if that's an important test or not.

Took it up in the kitchen, chopped some peppers and sliced some dried fruit. Then tested alongside a $60 Wuesthof that has a great edge on it. My $3 knife was slicing as smoothly and finely as the Wuesthof. So, it won't shave hair, but it does noticeably well slicing food.
 
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Stamp made a comment regarding the edge setting of such steels to the effect of "...avoid diamonds as they are likely to over chip the steel due to less than ideal HT". Search for the term martha stewart on his forum for the full commentary.
 
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