"Frog Lube".... I'm sold on it now.

I have used (and hoarded) a dozen or more lubes over the years, and it is sorta fun to look for the newest and greatest lube. There have been many threads here about XYZ lube being the "best", and I have tried a lot of them mostly because its just fun. But in the end, and at least for me, if a knife will flick open consistently, or a gun will cycle and not rust, whatever lube did it is just fine.

I must be living an easy life, because virtually every lube I encounter will do that. I am perfectly fine giving a multitool or knife pivot a spritz of WD40, because I haven't found any reason not to. [Leatherman recommends WD40]. I'm sure that you guys in high humidity or other dodgy environments want and need the "best", but for me, anything from Ballistol to Breakfree to the spendy nano lubes and super lubes will do the trick just fine.
 
AntDog said:
But how? The frog lube people can't just claim it does... Well, they can... Anyone can claim anything. I just want to hear their explanation of why heating the part to be treated is necessary.

Also, at what temperature is the desired effect achieved? Also, exactly what IS the desired effect?

I'm not saying Frog Lube is "snake oil". I'm just wanting to hear some kind of explanation for all of this.
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The thought is that with some heat, the lube "soaks into" the metal, an then subsequently when the item heats up again, the lube is released from the metal.

I use froglube for AR-15 builds recently and it has worked well.

As for the heating, the FL people say that 15 minutes in direct sunlight puts enough heat into the metal to allow for what they call "wicking action", so you don't have to go all "oven and heat gun" to get the warmth they are looking for.

I only like it because it is easy to work with and food safe, smells minty and is a USA / Veteran owned company.

Plus it is compatible with CLP, which is my favorite cleaner / lube.

best

mqqn
 
powernoodle said:
If this link. is true, it furthers my these that lubes are all pretty much the same. And interesting read, nonetheless, as is Fireclean's response.
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Veggie lubes perhaps. Look at the MSDS for breakfree CLP.

http://www.wfrfire.com/msds/pdf/break.pdf


My problem is with oils that won't give so much as a hint as to whats in them. Most high grade gun oils are group IV or V synthetic oils, with an additive package, the additives may or may not be worth much, but at the very least you're getting a synthetic oil. What particularly raises my suspicions are things that use a poor base oil, as it makes little sense to put high dollar additives in basic low grade oil, eg nano oil. And as frog lube and fireclean are incompatible with other oils, and have a low temperature range.. its hard to convince me that they are worth it.

I have a small collection. But I do have my preferences.
 
grizzled gizzard said:
^+1^

Thanks for the MSDS for Break Free too. It looks like there is very little risk of ingesting it.
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Yup. Might be technically toxic. But not breath it and get hospitalized toxic.

I think it's interesting however that many basic lubricants and rustprotectants are nothing more than straight mineral oil.
 
powernoodle said:
If this link. is true, it furthers my these that lubes are all pretty much the same. And interesting read, nonetheless, as is Fireclean's response.
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Agreed. Interesting. Maybe I'll try some canola oil. I do believe that's the nature of most businesses though. Take something that costs 5 dollars to make, hype the shit out of it, and sell it for 500. If you think profit margins are any less for most of what you buy, then you're crazier than I am for liking a hyped version of vegetable oil.

As much as I love the spyderco mule team project and what it stands for, I know it costs probably around 10 bucks per blade (or probably less) to make yet they sell for 80 or so. I don't believe that's really a terrible markup. That's just business.

I believe most of us are suckers and buy into BS.

0vDYKiR.jpg
 
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bodog said:
Agreed. Interesting. Maybe I'll try some canola oil. I do believe that's the nature of most businesses though. Take something that costs 5 dollars to make, hype the shit out of it, and sell it for 500. If you think profit margins are any less for most of what you buy, then you're crazier than I am for liking a hyped version of vegetable oil.

As much as I love the spyderco mule team project and what it stands for, I know it costs probably around 10 bucks per blade (or probably less) to make yet they sell for 80 or so. I don't believe that's really a terrible markup. That's just business.

I believe most of us are suckers and buy into BS.

0vDYKiR.jpg
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It's not just about raw material costs, you have the price of the machinery and the electricity and maintenance to run it, sending it out for heat treat, paying the employees, marketing costs, accounting for defective product, taxes, and a lot of other things. Whatever they make over that is the profit. Trust me, apart from some scams it's no get rich quick scheme.
 
SBaker34 said:
It's not just about raw material costs, you have the price of the machinery and the electricity and maintenance to run it, sending it out for heat treat, paying the employees, marketing costs, accounting for defective product, taxes, and a lot of other things. Whatever they make over that is the profit. Trust me, apart from some scams it's no get rich quick scheme.
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No doubt, but sheets of these metals aren't very expensive. For a simple mule team blade, just the materials, I doubt it'd cost more than maybe $1 to $5 per blade. I added the other $9 to account for the other stuff it takes to get the knife to market. I don't know, maybe I am lowballing it a little bit but I seriously doubt it takes even $60 to make a mule team blade. Not in Taiwan. $20 max. It only costs a couple thousand to move a full shipping container from China to the US. Imagine how many knives fit into one of those containers. 40 ft by about 10 ft by about 9 ft. A lot of knives. Pack those full of knives and divide the cost of shipping per knife and it's less than $1 per blade. How many mule blades can be water jetted out of a common sized sheet of metal? 30? So a couple bucks per blade. Start factoring in all the other stuff and I can't really see it costing much.

I don't think companies shoot for less than 100% -200% profit per product. You're starting to show success when you're hitting consistent 500% profit margins. I think that's probably what spyderco is shooting for. Maybe a little less, like 300-400%. Split the profits between expanding the company, buying back stock from investors, and pocketing the difference as your own paycheck.

That's for an honest company. Whatever Fireclean, froglube, nano-oil, etc are, if they're able to make 10,000% profit, and can remain a viable company, they're doing well. As long as they aren't lying about anything and they're up front with what their product does, the rest is capitalism. It's up to the consumer to buy the right product. If I bought canola oil in fancy packaging with a lot of great endorsements at $11 per ounce, that's what I did and can blame no one but myself.
 
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bodog said:
No doubt, but sheets of these metals aren't very expensive. For a simple mule team blade, just the materials, I doubt it'd cost more than maybe $1 to $5 per blade. I added the other $9 to account for the other stuff it takes to get the knife to market. I don't know, maybe I am lowballing it a little bit but I seriously doubt it takes even $60 to make a mule team blade. Not in Taiwan. $20 max. It only costs a couple thousand to move a full shipping container from China to the US. Imagine how many knives fit into one of those containers. 40 ft by about 10 ft by about 9 ft. A lot of knives. Pack those full of knives and divide the cost of shipping per knife and it's less than $1 per blade. How many mule blades can be water jetted out of a common sized sheet of metal? 30? So a couple bucks per blade. Start factoring in all the other stuff and I can't really see it costing much.

I don't think companies shoot for less than 100% -200% profit per product. You're starting to show success when you're hitting consistent 500% profit margins. I think that's probably what spyderco is shooting for. Maybe a little less, like 300-400%. Split the profits between expanding the company, buying back stock from investors, and pocketing the difference as your own paycheck.

That's for an honest company. Whatever Fireclean, froglube, nano-oil, etc are, if they're able to make 10,000% profit, and can remain a viable company, they're doing well. As long as they aren't lying about anything and they're up front with what their product does, the rest is capitalism. It's up to the consumer to buy the right product. If I bought canola oil in fancy packaging with a lot of great endorsements at $11 per ounce, that's what I did and can blame no one but myself.
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I'm sure they get a discount because of volume, but check out the price of s110v http://www.alphaknifesupply.com/bladematerials.htm#BS-CPMS110V

The real cost though is in the equipment, laser cutters, cnc machines, FRN moulds, I'm pretty sure Spyderco uses a robotic arm to finish their blades.

Now I'm not saying an honest company doesn't charge many times the price of materials, but I highly doubt they actually make a net profit of several times their expenses.

Companies like that actually sell a suspicious product for extreme prices like some oils? Then yes their profits are extremely high. However, to actually get people to pay that, they do need to market EXTREMELY aggressively, show up at every shooting competition, pay spokespeople, even if the actual oil costs them almost nothing, they still have expenses. My problem is of course that they choose to invest their profits into ripping people off with a poor product rather than actually making a decent one.

But I really have no clue, I only know that my uncle does not make even remotely close to 3-5 times profit with manufacturing metal parts.
 
That's super expensive. Here's 20CV at about the same measurements in a mule blade, keep in mind this is for a single piece. 13 bucks per blade.
http://www.nsm-ny.com/index.cfm/pro...-and-shear-cut---thickness-0093-width-250.cfm

You could probably drop it to about 10 bucks per blade for buying in bulk. You could probably cut it in half if the foundry wanted to push a specific steel for promotional purposes. I'd bet that happens a lot with some of these versions.

Obviously for just the steel.
 
Sbaker345 and mqqn:

Could you guys shoot me an email, I have a question for you two off line.
 
I recently got a container of the Froggy paste.. did a complete break down, clean, and re-lube with it on a sticky frame lock knife that uses bronze washers.
It glides open and close better than it ever has with the heavier weight grease that came from the factory. I focused it on to the lock face and the tang contact area and so far, after a week, it slides unlocked nearly effortlessly. I'm pleased so far.
 
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