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Frustrated, with sharping!

S

SRWeldon

Joined
May 26, 2012
Messages
470
Is there a difference between honing a knife and sharping a knife? I want my BK2 and 11 scary sharp but can't seem to get them there. I've used the mouse pad and sandpaper method. I just bought a Lansky sharping system and it made them worse. I am just being impactient. Tell me what to do. The lansky sytem says it is a hoing sytem. Which I thought was more to staighten the blade up to be prepared to sharpen.
 
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Honing is the term commonly used for the final stages of refining an edge.
 
Perhaps it is how you are using the sharpener?
Have you watched any Youtube videos to see how others use the system? If not I suggest you do. It is an easy system to use but there is a learning curve...more of you gaining experience in the details of how to place the knife in the clamp, etc.
Because the Lansky system uses 4 fixed angles you are "stuck" with those angles. I've found that the knives I own aren't factory sharpened to any of the 4 Lansky angles and I've had to reprofile my edges to the angle I decide on for the particular knife I'm sharpening.

It also takes time...I've spent several hours reprofiling and sharpening a knife with a harder steel to a hair popping/polished edge while it took less than an hour on a knife with 440C steel...a very nice steel, just easier to sharpen.
It also depends on the steel and stones used. Harder steel knives are easier to work starting with the diamond stones then finishing with the ceramic stones over the standard stones. I started with the Arkansas stone set and they work great with less hard steels but it was a brute of a chore on 154CM, in my opinion. I bought the medium and fine diamond stones and reprofiling my Benchmade 585 with 154CM steel was much easier...though it still took time to get the scary sharp/polished edge that easily slices through telly book paper.

I suggest starting with a knife with an easier steel and just practice until you develop the method that works best for you.
Be aware of where and how you place the blade in the holder as well. Where you place the blade in the clamp also affects the final angle on your blade. The angle will change when you place the blade in the clamp for the next sharpening session unless it is in the same place. I use a small notebook to record the angle of each knife I have and a sketch of the blade placement. It makes resharpening much easier.

I've been using the Lansky system for only several months and thus far my favorite method for reprofiling an edge is to start with the medium stone to set the new profile, then the fine diamond stone to smooth and sharpen the edge. Next is the Arkansas "hard" stone/650ish grit to begin the final sharpening and polishing process followed by the ultra-fine and blue sapphire ceramic hones to bring the edge to a scary sharp and polished level. You should see a very sharp edge using the fine diamond stone.
This method works great for me but you will have to spend time and have patience to learn how to do it well and what works best for you.
 
Honing is usually what you do if you knife is just a little dull, my knives never get a change to get duller than just needed honing becuase I sharpen them requently. it took me a little while to get good. but it just takes practice, just keep practice. work with a cheaper knife for a while so you dont mess up your good ones. once you get good at it you'll be happy you did. watch some youtube videos of people sharpening, that will help you figure it out
 
My issues with the Lansky and other clamp-style sharpeners:

  • The clamp does not work on all knives.
  • The actual angle of the stone in relation to the edge will vary depending on the spine thickness of the knife. The angles that are marked on the guide are irrelevant because of this.
  • The clamp guides the stone in a roughly circular arc. Because this arc is not identical to the arc of the knife edge, the stone's angle in relation to the edge is continuously changing over the length of the stroke. So while you get very consistent strokes you get wildly uneven edge angles along the edge.
  • You have to keep resetting the clamp in order to sharpen large blades.

Personally I think that if you're going to be doing any sharpening it pays to learn how to free-hand. It's not as easy to do when you first start out, but it's a lifelong skill. Perhaps this will help with some of the basics.
 
I have moved from a DMT to the mousepad and leather strop, after convexing the edge, i can get my knives to cut paper easily BUT I cant get them shaving sharp, however hard i try......
 
SRWeldon said:
Is there a difference between honing a knife and sharping a knife? I want my BK2 and 11 scary sharp but can't seem to get them there. I've used the mouse pad and sandpaper method. I just bought a Lansky sharping system and it made them worse. I am just being impactient. Tell me what to do. The lansky sytem says it is a hoing sytem. Which I thought was more to staighten the blade up to be prepared to sharpen.
Click to expand...

I've noticed a very specific problem with my lanskys results, the knives I sharpen on it look razor sharp, and running a thumb along the side it feels razor sharp, but its not even a working edge really. I can't even achieve a paper cutting edge. I'm taking my time so whats the problem??
 
ThirdTooth said:
I've noticed a very specific problem with my lanskys results, the knives I sharpen on it look razor sharp, and running a thumb along the side it feels razor sharp, but its not even a working edge really. I can't even achieve a paper cutting edge. I'm taking my time so whats the problem??
Click to expand...

Are you getting a burr on the coarse stones?
 
I suggest painting the edge with a colored Sharpie so you can see where the stone is contacting.
 
I found the lanksy system extremely problematic as well for all the reasons you listed FortyTwoBlades.

I do know that sharpening gives me fits as well as I'm all thumbs and have no skills.... :(

For whatever reason my blades in S30V end up duller AFTER I sharpen them on the lanksy or by hand on my diamond hone... LOL!

My only saving grace is my set of 8" paper wheels; they really do create a quick, sharp edge!
 
I was given an old non diamond Lansky by my father. It took a few blunders to get the hang of it. I didn't know what the oil was for until I watched a Youtube video a few years ago. The stones fill up with metal particles and need the oil to "float" them out. That might be your problem. Put a bead of oil on along the stone rub your finger in circles down the length of the stone and then wipe it clean. You will notice a HUGE difference. Now I can get a good edge on a turd if I needed too!
 
ThirdTooth said:
I've noticed a very specific problem with my lanskys results, the knives I sharpen on it look razor sharp, and running a thumb along the side it feels razor sharp, but its not even a working edge really. I can't even achieve a paper cutting edge. I'm taking my time so whats the problem??
Click to expand...

Right the edge looks amazing but is duller than a hoe! I have used marker on the edge. Maybe I should go back to free hand with the marker
 
hone:

1: to sharpen or smooth with a whetstone
2: to make more acute, intense, or effective


Here's my two cents.

Honing is sharpening.

Make sure you are reaching all the way to the edge of the edge. With a guided system, on the first sharpening, you may also intially be re-profiling the knife to match the angle on the guide so it may take longer. The easiest way to tell is to form a tiny burr on one side and then the other. With each finer stone, make the burr smaller and smaller. Also, towards the end of sharpening, make the burr smaller and smaller by using lighter and lighter pressure. The last few passes should only be in the direction into the edge. Sometimes you will still end up with a burr that is so small you can't see or feel it. This tiny burr can still effect shaving or paper cutting. Strop to get rid of it and make the edge even better. Your strop doesn't have to be fancy. It could be as simple as newspaper or I use green compound on a piece of cardboard.
 
Here are my .02 worth on the mousepad/sandpaper method... The thickness of your edge makes a difference. Also, it doesn't take much pressure for the indention that your are forming as you stroke along the sandpaper, to actually contact the 'final edge' and work to dull the edge with each stroke. Especially if you are unsing the traditional neoprene mouse pad. In my experience, you are much better off using a thick (8-10oz) piece of leather as your backing, preferably a piece of latigo as opposed to a piece of tooling or other stiff leather. Doesn't have to be anything fancy or precision cut, either. Just hit a local leather shop, or you can speak with a shoe repair store in your area about a piece of scrap. You can also use this piece to strop your final edge. That should help get the hair to voluntarily JUMP from your arm!

I have both the BK2 and BK11, both will wipe the hair from your arm using this method. Just ask my wife, who keeps telling me I look like I have mange on my arms...

DD
 
Thanks for the responses guys. I'll keep working on it. I just want my knives very sharp. Scratch that scary sharp. I think I will practice on some of the cheap knives I have laying around.
 
I was doing just OK with my Japanese water stones and Spyderco ceramic stones. Then I got an EdgePro Professional. That thing puts a laser edge on almost everything except recurve edges. I got the full set of Ben Dale's stones and the three finest grits of Chosera stones, up to 1 micron fineness. The edge on my knives know are almost perfect. I highly recommend it.
 
Don't get frustrated man, sharpening isn't a skill that appears magically the first time you try to use it. I just received my DMT Diasharp kit today and am learning to freehand. Is my first edge perfect? Nah, but it's better than it was before the knife hit the stones and it'll be even better when I try again tomorrow. You can only learn by practicing attentively and watching how the blade is contacting the stones.
 
I have a smith precision sharpener that using the sharpie method and trial an error I was able to get a working edge but it looked shoddy. Depending on how far you put the blade in the clamp with change your angle some and it won't be exactly what the slot says. You can adjust it and use the sharpie to somewhat align it but if you want a nice edge with a decently priced piece of equipment get a spyderco sharpmaker. I got mine with the diamond and ultra fine rods and I can get my edges scary sharp now. The guys at work just laugh when I shave with it or cut through paper like it's not even there. I think all together everything cost me a little over one hundred bucks. Spyderco started out as a sharpening company. Great product. Watch the videos. It also does serrations.
 
I agree on using the sharpee. Some days I can sharpen a knife and some days I cant. I have learned to give it a break when its not going right and come back later and try again.
 
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