Full tang verse hidden tang

giant1

giant1

Joined
May 9, 2007
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Hi all

There are a lot of knives out there in all sizes from EDC right up to the big Bowies that are constructed with a hidden tang.

I really like the look of some Bowies but have always stopped short of actually buying one because I feel that a hidden tang could not possibly be a strong as a full tang construction. So I always opt for something that in my mind is far superior in design. I just cannot get my head around the idea that a hidden tang especially on a larger knife is a good idea.

Having said that, a lot of respected makers use this style all the time and a lot of people buy them.

.......So what am I missing?

I would love to hear from those amongst us who are knowledgable on this topic.
 
What do you plan to do with it? If you want it to substitute for an ax, you're probably better off with a full tang knife. If you want it to substitute for a crowbar, you're probably better off with a full tang knife. If want it to substitute for a hammer, you're probably better off with a full tang knife. If you want it to do all of those things, you're definitely better off with a full tang knife.

If you paln to use it for a knife, either should work just fine. If they didn't, makers would probably have given up on stick tangs instead of using them for 3000 years.
 
What yablanowitz said.

If you've invented some new form of knife use that no one's heard about, then maybe you can only use a full tang knife, otherwise, hundreds of millions (billions) of people have used bladed tools with hidden, stick or partial tangs without any problems for thousands of years.
 
A stick tang can be much more comfortable...

1) They can be organically shaped to fit the hand from one piece of material and can therefore be made without seems or gaps that may create hot spots.

2) Shock from a stick tang knife will be somewhat lessened due to the handle blocking the tang from your hand. Generally the handle material will be softer than the steel it houses. On a full tang knife your hand is exposed to shock directly from the tang.

Oh, and you can also make stacked leather handles that way:D:thumbup:.
 
To tell you the truth, if you use a knife and take care of it, instead of abusing it tremendously till it breaks, it't not really gonna matter. Like the Government said, hidden tangs (otherwise known as rat tail) fit your hand better. For the past 70 years, US has been using the KABAR, and thats a rat tail tang. Unless you really put some horrendous force on the knife, a rat tail tang should serve you pretty well.
 
Scrap Yard uses hidden tang because they say it's harder for dirt to get in between the blade and handle that way. But they don't sacrifice much strength because the tang extends almost all the way to the end of the handle.
 
Yep. The whole world has pretty much been "conquered" by people with hidden and even "stick" tang knives. The Saxons with the seax, the Vikings with the belt knife (see a modern, faithful repro from Helle), the Normans with the Poiniard, the Allies with the Sykes-Fairburn and the Ka-Bar.

However, the American tradition, Bowie not withstanding, is more along the full tang knife line. The west was won with Sheffield and/or Solingen butcher knives...nobody manufactured a dedicated hunting knife until the very end of the 19th century.

Both can serve you well. My current favorites are full tang ESEE but I like Mora and traditional puukkos.
 
Interesting thoughts and comments, thanks.

I have never abused knives or used them for anything other than what they were intended for. I have never seen a knife as something that does it all. A well designed and made knife will do a lot, but not everything. I am not into abusing knives.

I think everyone pretty much agrees that a full tang is stronger. So it just boils down to what some see as a comfort thing and perhaps aesthetics and that the idea has been around and used for a long time. I have some full tang knives that are extremely comfortable and can be used for long periods with out problem, some also look fantastic. I guess I am still wondering why anyone would choose the lessor of the two if one design has a clear advantage in terms of strength, even if it has been around a long time :confused:
 
Well one reason Norse and Finnish people like the hidden tang is because of temperature issues. When it is -50, you don't want to be touching metal...even with a glove on. Also, with a full tang, theoretically anyway, any shock delivered to the knife would transfer to the hand the way a metal framed revolver does vs. a rubber gripped one.

Conversely, the full tang, with so much metal and proportionaly so little force thereby applied to the handle material, will be stonger. I believe there would be sufficient information to take that out of the realm of the theoretical.

So to answer your question, I don't think your premise is correct terms of one design being the "lesser". If you're incorrect (and I mean this with all due respect) then people are choosing a knife as often for other reasons as they are for strength.

Bushcrafters are very fond of Moras (some not even full length) because they carve wood so well and are so easy to sharpen and they are so inexpensive and light. They also favor things like the BRKT Aurora, ESEE, Koster and others for strength (bushcrafters seems to dislike the axe).

Yes, the Helle Viking is on my short list of must haves along with the very Bowie-like ESEE Junglas...two different knives...two different tangs.
 
Hidden tangs when done correctly can be very strong not to mention that you can never get the balance and great feel imho with a full tang knife unless it is a tapered tang


not to mention certain types of guards dont work well on full tang knives
 
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Just be informed to the construction of hidden tang knives. They are not all made the same. Some might have pretty slinder rat tails or sharp angles.
I've seen a Ka-Bar or two break at the junction of tang and blade. Like said in the first reply, not all knives are meant to be prybars, hammers, or used in place of a splitting wedge.
 
After getting a few Scrapyard knives it's not hard to see that a hidden tang can be every bit as strong as it needs to be. How many companies actually build them that way? First hand experience is probably the only way to know for sure.
 
I try and go for full tang or the reduced fallkniven style. I abuse the hell out of my knives so its worth the piece of mind for me.

Also rat tail tangs can be quite strong if they arch the corners where the tang meets the blade, unfortunately a few company's still don't.
 
giant1 said:
I think everyone pretty much agrees that a full tang is stronger.
Click to expand...

I don't agree with you.

When using a knife for what it is mean to do: cut, slice, chop and occasionally poke. You will never get to the failure point to have to determine if it is "stronger".
 
As others have pointed out it's not a binary equation: the choice isn't either full tang or scrawny rat tail tang. There are a number of knives (Scrapyard and Fallkniven come to mind) whose hidden tangs are so close to full as to be functionally the same.
 
giant1 said:
I guess I am still wondering why anyone would choose the lessor of the two if one design has a clear advantage in terms of strength, even if it has been around a long time :confused:
Click to expand...


As an engineer, my response is, "once something is strong enough for its intended function, designing in additional strength is a waste if you have to give up some other property to get it."

So, if your usage of a knife does not require the extra strength of a full tang, why give up anything just to get something you don't need. If your usage does require it, go for it.

Generations of knife users, who certainly could have had full tang knives if they really thought the full tang was needful, did not. Perhaps your needs are different from theirs.
 
I give you Exhibit A:

knifecons.jpg


That knife has been holding up quite well under some pretty adverse circumstances for close to 75 years now.
 
I suppose the responses are pretty much as I expected they would be. Maybe it's not really a question of one being better than the other. Instead it just comes down to personal preference.

Who would have thought...........:)
 
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