Fulltime Makers: Fears and Satisfaction

It sure is nice to hear the words that make you stop and consider what we really have in life. I guess our heart will be the ultimate guild in every tough choice we make. I guess for now my heart cant make my brain shutup. I know it's never going to be an easy jump. I'll make one day.

Mark

Thanks for the post Ed. You always bring pictures to my mind as if I were there. I hope the holidays find us all well.
 
Mr. Fowler,
Thank you for taking the time to comment on this topic - I was sincerely hoping you would. We recently lost Rob before I ever got a chance to meet him and I am glad we didn't lose you. I have to get to a show and meet you soon. I bought your book about 2 months ago and absolutely love it (not sure which part I like better - the freeze quenching or dealing with the revenuers) and look forward to buying the next one. I can tell from your writing that you write because you love it, but I also take great comfort in knowing that some of the $15 I paid for the book goes back to you and helps pay some of the expenses of life in order that you can devote as much time as possible to knifemaking and writing.

I guess the issue of money and the artist hits me very personally. I'm married to a young opera singer who's fighting tooth and nail to establish herself in a very exclusive career. We've had to find money by any means possible to support her art including me, a 6'3" 250 lb. guy, doing telemarketing for gynecology seminars to make enough money for her to study with the best (thus, expensive) teachers. I now invest what I can to help pay the development of her art.

I could be wrong, but the career of the custom knifemaker strikes me as the career of an artist, along with all the financial concerns of living as an artist. You do it because you love it, but you need a way to keep doing it and live. In the end it's really not about money, it's about creating a way to be financially free to pursue the art.

Tim
 
Thanks for the kind thoughts, so now some more.
If I had children, they would not go to day care, they would become a part of my life doing what ever I was doing. I lost a grandaughter at a very young age, I always felt that there was plenty of time for her later. You never believe the youngest will be the first to go. Spend all the time you can with them.

The great benefit of doing what you absolutely love doing is that you put all your energy into it. Working 18 hours straight in the shop is nothing, all good times. You don't waste time with stuff that doesn't matter. The ball game, the tv program, are insignificant.

Most folks waste more time seeking adventure that is unreal, instead of making your greatest source of enjoyment your profession. My grandmother gave up opera to teach music in the church, she loved it. She taught some great singers, I was not one of them! Her greatest lesson, go for what you love and make it count.

Purpose, or responsability to others is what keeps me going. You make knives because you hope someone wants them but the real reason is you love doing it.

Rob is one of the reasons I feel the urgency to complete the stuff I am working on now. We never know the future. Rob is not gone, he remains in our memories and dreams. I miss him and the many others who have gone, but if you look and listen you can still find them.

Each and every one of us has a gift, a very special gift that we have to develop. It is easy to get mad at that gift when you are in rough country, but, the tough times usually result in a new horizion. Supporting your mate in her dream only makes for good times for all.

The world of knives is my family. Being a family man I remain devoted.
 
Thank you Ed. We've gotten alot of guff from freinds and family about our "life" plans. I've had alot of jobs but, never anything I said "this is what I want to do". The same is true with Tess. Until I tried making knives, that is. We waited through ten years of marriage to have a child because we wanted to have a home and some open land for a child to actually grow up on. Also, we wanted to both work at home so we would be able to raise our boy as we wanted to. Alot of comments we heard during Tess's pregnency were related to not being able to do this or that again. Not true, especially since almost the only place we go are knife shows, he goes with us on every trip. At 7 1/2 months old this kid has been to 7 shows and one hammer-in, and he's been great at every one. I love knives and knifemaking and get a thrill every time a finish a piece but, I also love the fact that I'm doing my best to make a good and close knit life for my family with my two hands. Whether I succeed at knives for a living...we'll see. I've never felt more stongly about anything else other than my family so I'm going to give it one hell of a shot.

On a side note, Ed. I actually never had any of your books. I've always enjoyed your writings in Blade though. I was fortunate enough to receive a gift card from Borders for X-mas and guess what? Your books Knife Talk 1 & 2 will be arriving on the 31st. I look very much to enjoying these two books as much as your other writings. Thanks.
 
Your going to do great J., It sure sounds like your living a dream. Did you ever find out anything about the health insurance?.I've come to realize that the no insurance gig is what has me so worried. I can live in a box and eat bugs if I have to, but a have to at least have insurance for my wife and daughter. I'll go ahead and make some inquiries and let you know what I find out.

If there are any makers out there that have their health insurance not through their spouse or work It would be great to here about it.

Mark
 
Well, I kept passing this thread up and now regret it. I guess I've seen so many of this type here that I just assumed it was the same old same old. My mistake and loss. Making this thread a sticky was a good idea, whoever thought of it. That's what caught my attention.

Anyway Mark, I'll tell you a bit of my story and I hope you listen, for your own sake. It's very exciting thinking about going full-time as a knifemaker. There are definate stages to the process and each one of the stages opens your eyes just a wee bit further. Some of us have what it takes to make a go of it the first time out. Others, like me, fall flat on our face.

I went full-time in July of 2000. First, I went to the Bill Moran School of Bladesmithing for 6 weeks of learning adventure I'll never forget. When I got back home from that I launched my full-time venture. For the first year, it was an amazing time. It seemed I could do no wrong in the smithy or knife shop. I felt nine feet tall and fireproof! Every new design was a success and a joy to build. Things went by the numbers and I was happier than I've ever been. I started getting alot of exposure on the internet by going to knife-related websites like this one. The orders started piling up. And up. I was very proud of myself and the potential for success that I was facing. I worked hard and long and had little or no time for anything else. I ate, slept and made knives. Period. Seven days a week, from daylight till bedtime, whenever that happened to be.

After a year or so of that I began to realize something. The joy had left my life and had been replaced with a drudgery that I was beginning to shun. Not openly, at first. But it started sneaking up on me and riding around on my shoulders all day and night. I started to view my backlog as an enemy and the spoiler of my good times in the smithy and knife shop. Also, my lack of business sense and orgainzation was beginning to tell on me. My record keeping started slipping and I'd lose track of orders (mostly because of the drinking). I'd neglect updating customers with email or phone calls because I was behind and powerless to do much about it and felt a dreadful sense of guilt. I tried very hard to increase my pace and crank out the knives but the harder I tried, the more frustrated I got. I began skulking around inventing things that needed to be done here on my place and avoiding the smithy and knife shop and anything to do with knives. It was a very difficult time for me and the only saving grace was the understanding of my customers (and the love of my wonderful wife). Good fortune had gifted me with customers that didn't pressure me to perform or hound me incessantly about the progress of their knives. But I fell down on the job because I couldn't handle the pressure of a backlog and I've only recently been able to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

It's a difficult job to face your failure and accept the total blame for that failure. But in the end it has to be faced and I had to accept it and move on. I'm not finished with my knifemaking career but I came real close to laying it all down and walking away from it more than once in the last year or so. I applied for a position as a prep cook at a local restaraunt and got it. I only lasted a few days because I couldn't keep up with the frenzied hectic pace required for that position. Hey, I'm 44 years old and no whiz kid. And I work at one speed: slow and methodical. I'll second the idea that being your own boss is one of the most difficult things you'll ever do (for most people). Motivating yourself when you have no drive is a nerve wracking and health draining experience. My health suffered greatly and I began drinking heavily. Or maybe I should say I started drinking heavily and my health suffered. Same difference. It all came from the self-induced stress of a big backlog. I just couldn't deal with it.

I don't know how to tell you to succeed as a full-time knifemaker because I haven't discovered it for myself yet. I'm not giving up but I'm afraid I've damaged my reputation to a great extent, and that will hurt my future. What I can tell you is to learn from my experience and don't sit in the shop mulling over your misery, wasting valuable time. Get help with your confusion and lack of motivation. Go to your friends, whether here on the internet or right there at home. Read motivational books about business and the arts. Get guidance from the author of our talents. Include God in your business plan. I didn't intentionally exclude him but I forgot to include him.

I know some folks are going to think I'm crazy for opening myself up like this here on the forum for all to see. But it's important for you to hear both sides of the story when you're conisdering something so important. You need to KNOW that you can cover all the bases for your knife business and still take care of things at home. And I don't know how to tell you how to KNOW it. I just know to tell you. I still enjoy making knives Mark. It has slowly become fun once again. I'm getting ready to start on my first big knife project for the year and it's a very exciting prospect. Don't ever let anything ruin it for you Mark. My love for making knives is a compulsion that if I nurture and respect, should never leave me. I think your idea to wait another year and see how things pan out is a good one. One bit of advice I can give you is to take this year and acquire all the things you need for a good start in full-time knifemaking. I don't mean go crazy and in debt getting all the finest equipment either. Just make sure you have the bare necessities and all bases are covered for all the major steps in the knifemaking process. And also, keep things simple and as low-tech as possible in the beginning. Let things take their course naturally and don't force anything on yourself that you're not really ready for. You will discover what you REALLY need as you go along.

I hope my sad tale will help you Mark. And anybody else reading this thread that's thinking about going full-time. This is just part of my story and doesn't reflect on any of the other fine makers out there. I'm sure there are many out there with stories similar to mine but I just happened to be the peckerwood to lay it all out here. I wish you well, whatever you decide Mark. Be original in your designs and always always always be honest to yourself and your customers. I guess that's all I had to say.
 
I want to add to this because the rest of your life is important
...and keep in mind this Is only MHO
and I want to beat the dead bush again.
Max is right with what he's said.
for me it's the customers ordering knives that's already been
made that is back logged
( and back-logged is a lucky place to be, kind of)
but that's one of the things that makes it hard,
then the business end and I've got years of it,,
but still because of the rest of what
I'm saying here it don't always help,
just more stuff you don't what to do.
the back orders pays the bills but you'll have to force
yourself to do it at a point in time.
many makers out there because of the stress
will stop taking order and sell as they make
BUT with out a backlog of orders, orders can get skimpy at times during the year,

so it's a catch 22, as an artist you work
with a want to create new
stuff, and a lot of customers won't trust you to just make a
knife for them blindly for good money
(thank god for the ones that do,)
but most will look at what you have made and order one of them
most of the time. so the want to create is pent up in you and
like max said you get bummed out and motivation starts to suck.

if you're lucky and do well and have a good customer base then
you can just make and sell what you have, but but but...

I still rely on my small engine business about 10% at times,
that sucks because I got burned out from doing it for 16 years,
the wife is now teaching full time after going back to
school and finished collage.( she did that for me so I can do this.)
you need a back up to be safe in this game.
(most the time,, not all the time
but the dues have been paid
by those that have it good now)
I respect Max for saying what he did,, many guys would not,,
it's not being a failer,,it's life
and it can take many runs at it to get it right.

most the time we hear what we want to hear ( the glory)
not the whole story.
having fun with what you do comes with a price.
and that can be just making it at times,
or maybe not..this got a lot longer than I wanted
and I do like making knives better than typing so you know where I'm off to..any time
you need advice looked at at both ends let me know
 
Max, thanks for that. I think most all of us hit (or at least brush against) that situation. An order backlog, like Dan said, can be a blessing and a curse at the same time. It's great to have the orders to pay the bills but, you also want to make what you want to make. I try to space my orders out to a reasonable number per month. So far so good. I've seen some makers (not knocking anyone, in any way here) get a good break, get a load of orders and the crumble under them. I'm trying to learn from others and Max's post definately helps. Thanks again.
 
It is interesting to hear how the full-time makers handle the issue of being able to excercise creativity in their work. Perhaps it may be a bit much to expect to make knives that are new to you every time. Maybe a compromise can be reached by deciding that every Nth knife will be one that you want to make and allow the rest to be the "bread and butter" ones that your customers want you to make but may be stale or boring to you. The knifemaker that I used to visit when I lived in New Zealand had a some interesting designs of his own. The majority of his work was for the local abatoirs where they wanted more of the same thing each time. I had considered turning other hobbies into vocations but saw that I would run into the same issues that Max and Dan raised. I look back at all the different stuff that I have been paid to design in my 21 years as an Electrical Engineer but I don't see any hi-fi systems. I used to be able to treat electronics as a hobby but now I don't want to look at it any more when I go home each day. That's why I started making knives :) I guess all occupations become boring to some degree, after a while, so each of us have to continue to make opportunities to excercise our creativity where we can. That's where a lot of the man-made beauty in this world comes from.

Phil
 
Thanks Max and Dan and everyone else who has taken their time to post their thoughts on this matter.I truly believe the saying that God doesnt close a door without opening a another.
I have an appointment next Tuesday with a retired local business executive. I dont know if anyone has hear of the organization, but it's called SCORE. They offer free business mentoring to anyone. The best thing is that they are knowledgeable about local aspects of business pertinant to your area.

Mark
 
SCORE can be great mainly because you can count on most
of what they say, because they are not your competition any longer
I'm not saying the knife biz is. but many are back stabbers.
knife making is the contrary to most businesses
but still should
be run like one.. :barf:
good luck to you and keep us posted:)
 
Thanks Max. I know that took a lot to open up like that. You made the point much better than I did. While I am not a professional knife maker, I am self employed and have been for a long time. I know all too well what Max was saying because I and most self employed people, have been through the same thing.

Ed Fowler and many of the others are exceptional people. While I enjoy being self employed, I have also paid a large price. One of the costs to me was the time I put into my work and missing a lot of time with my children when they were young. I woke up one morning and they were grown and I was still working 60+ hour weeks.

Another was my health. The candle that burns twice as bright, burns half as long.

Don't take this as a warning to not go professional. It's only meant to show you that there is a down side to self employment.
 
Well I had my meeting with the SCORE dude. Real nice fella and could not quit looking at my photo album. I dont think he had ever seen anything custom made before.:D

Pretty much his advice was to go ahead and just get my business license $35 and I'm in business. His only words of real wisdom were to pay an accountant to do my taxes, and get this. He said that a lot of folks dont even file every quarter like they are supposed to. He said the fine is $15 and most accountants charge a lot more than that to do the taxes. I thought that was kind of strange.

Marketing a product was another point he pushed home. Not getting your product out there for people to see is a big cause for business failure.

The SCORE folks seem more geared towards helping people get their business plans together for people needing capital to get started more so than Joe Blow the knifemaker wanting to expand into a legitimate business.

It's real nice that this service is available to anyone who wants it.
 
Originally posted by Mark Williams
His only words of real wisdom were to pay an accountant to do my taxes, and get this. He said that a lot of folks dont even file every quarter like they are supposed to. He said the fine is $15 and most accountants charge a lot more than that to do the taxes. I thought that was kind of strange.
Click to expand...

here in Maine
the state decides on how often you pay Sales Tax, it depends on
how much state tax you take in,
it could be once a year, they determine that. doing it you'er self
is not a bid deal just a form for the taxable items you sold
non taxable items as in out of state sales have to be reported also.

stuff you would have to give your accountant anyway
when I was in up to my eye balls in the small engine biz
(mostly in state sales) I was set up monthly
and now I'm mostly out of state non s/taxable now and I'm on a
bi annual schedule ,,
if say $5,000.00 in sales taxes annually was collected by you, you'd
be set up by the month.
this means you'd have to sell $100,000.00 worth of taxable goods at 5% (current Maine Tax to be collected from the customer)

the fine here is based on how much is in question and then you pay interest on it too.
 
My thanks to all who have posted on this thread. J & Tess, you folks are an inspiration and I hope to follow your lead some day. Right now, I am committed for another year or two minimum to my social work job. Then I haope to go half time and get more serious about knife making as a business.
Right now doing it as a hobby gives me the freedom to learn without pressure and to work on my craft so that when I do "break out" my product will be good quality. I'm letting my love for making blades lead me. I figure if I take it slow, I'm less likely to screw up. Right now I do it because I love to do it. Eventually, I want to be able to do it more, but I don't want to put too much pressure on too soon as I fear that feeling of losing the love and dying under the pressure.
Thanks Max for your post. I've had a similar experience and this is why I'm going slow with this one. J, I like what you said about balancing the orders with the fun stuff. Tess, thanks so much for your post. That gave me a lot to think about.
A note about insurance. You may want to check out the NASE (national association of the self employed). They (and other organizations like them) offer insurance tailored to small business people like us as well as other benefits which can come in handy.
Thanks to all for this post, its given me alot to think about.
Ed
 
Most of us need 7 or 8 hours sleep per 24 hour period. As you get older that will drop somewhat to 5 or 6 hours, but by then you might be retired.

But just think - if you could get your sleep (restful sleep) down to 6 hours and work 8 hours, it still leaves you with 10 hours. If you are married and have a family you will need a couple of hours of quality time per day (weekends too) with your family to show love and caring. That still leaves 8 hours - for what? I agree with some of the other comments about things that can waste time. If you priortize your time you may find that doing exactly what you really love doing for the other 8 hours is knife making and call it full time.

We all have 24 hours in a day. Some work 2 or 3 jobs to make a living. If you can do that with one job you can make knives f/t instead of taking on the 2nd job.

I'm retired now. But in the years I've worked full time as a sales consultant in a major industry, I have been a farmer, resturant entrepreneur, inventor (with 2 patents), Black belt in martial arts, sales consultant, silversmith, author, and lecturer, to name just a few occupations (actually hobbies) I've had in my life time.

Keep your full time money earning job, priortize your time, and make knives full time too. If it is your heartfelt desire -- it will happen.

I make knives full time now - now that I am a full time husband, full time grandfather, full time silversmith, full time author, etc. You get the picture. Live life and love it.
 
Been thinking along these lines myself. In my situation, the question is how to build a clientele and my skills part time so that maybe I could go full-time someday.

For instance, I know I'll never retire rich, but knifemaking at low volume could make retirement easier. Wouldn't really want that to be full-time, I suppose.

Anyway, on the issue of making new stuff vs. the same things over and over, I've wondered about a system to "force" the maker to make new and different things from time to time as well. What I'd thought of doing was building a relationship with different organizations that need raffle prizes. Seems to me that your local chapter of Ducks Unlimited would be more than happy to take whatever you feel like making that month for their banquet raffle, assuming it's a good-quality piece and doesn't have antique Japanese pornography scrimmed into the handle.
  • You get to make something creative on a regular basis.
  • You are helping a worthy cause by doing so.
  • You are raising your profile, at least locally, each time.
  • If the org is a tax-free (like some charities) there may be a way to write off the time, materials, etc. come tax time.
  • Nothing says you can't then sell more of that pattern if you feel the need to be sensible and businesslike.

Does this make sense, or am I overlooking something obvious?
 
Gwinny,NO offence to DU,it is a great organization and worthy of donations. My neighbor,Dave Riley,is the retired human resources manager of DU. One fact about DU,if you donate a knife to the auction and expect business to generate from it,forget it.That's been the experience of the makers I know of that have made donations.Your area could be different,though.Same way with Pheasants Forever. But,at least,the donations will do some good,as you suggest.
 
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