Fulltimers: Seeking feedback and insight (long)

Just keep going forward,... and never look back! :)

... maybe it's group hug time?
 
This subject offers important insight to the world of knifemakers and I have gained a lot of understanding of other makers and the collectors that help support their work. These different levels are what I went through and have no bearing on how good a maker’s work is or one level being any better than another. This is just what I went through.

Since I started making knives in 1975 I have gone through 4 basic levels. Each was an important step getting me to where I am now.

1st – Hobby knifemaker. I was at this level for about 10 years. I had a full time job that paid all the bills and offered a little extra to put into my hobby. At this level I made knives as gifts, blanket prizes and would sell a few. Success or failure was based on whether I was having fun or not. There was little pressure to build a name or style and I could do about what I wanted to in regard to pushing further. I learned a lot about making knives and a little about being in business. This was a comfortable level of knifemaking and I suspect a lot of makers are here and satisfied to stay.

2nd – Part Time Maker. I was at this level for about 3 to 4 years. At this level I begin thinking about working toward making this a career. I studied improving my methods and invested all the money I made with knives into equipment and materials. I still had a full time job that paid the bills and expenses such as electricity, automobiles and insurance. I started keeping customer records and started a bookkeeping system for tracking expenditures and for taxes. I produced a brochure and started going to Craft Shows, Knife and Gun Shows as well as Black Powder gatherings. During this time I also started building a recognizable style. This was a very comfortable level to be at with little pressure.

I suspect a lot of makers are at this level and are very happy to stay here. A good maker can build a good name at this level and stay as busy as they want to with a little promotional effort as long as the work being produced is good and priced competitively.

3rd – Full Time Maker with Additional Income. I was at this level for about 2 years. This is where I was a full time maker with a spouse that had a full time job. I paid all of my knife expenses and part of the household bills. My insurance was carried by my wife’s company insurance policy. At this level I begin to feel real pressure to build my name and business. I started advertising in Knife and Black Powder publications. I had articles written and sent them to the same publications. I added Knife Shows to my travels. I still re-invested all the money I could back into the business for equipment, materials and promotion. I hired an accountant to handle my tax preparation. I continued to improve my customer list and became computerized. I did mailings to my customers with catalogs and show invitations. During this period my customer base grew at a faster pace because I put more efforts in this area. My presence at Shows begin to grow and I built strong relations ships with others in the business. I joined the Knifemakers Guild and the ABS.

I suspect a lot of makers are at this level too. They are making Knives full time and either have a part time job, a working spouse or a retirement income. This could also be a very comfortable level to be at for the long term. Knife sales are important but not necessarily critical to survival. A slow time can be dealt with without having to make major changes in ones lifestyle.

4th – Full Time Maker with No Additional Income. This is the level I am at now and have been since 1988. There is a lot of pressure to keep moving forward and continue building my knifemaking skills and business practices. The most important thing I did here was to add Karen to the business. She brought a lot of business skills and makes Sheaths that really put our work in a whole new league. We have to keep complete records that are an important tool for keeping the business end straight. They are vital for tax preparation and research into expenses. Knowing where your money goes is critical in knowing how to price our work. Pricing by what someone else does or what you think the market will bear is short sighted and will likely cause problems in the future. This is a difficult business to be financially successful in as a totally independent maker. There is a lot of competition and very few customers really need what we do. By having to derive your entire income from the knife business a maker is forced to get up and go to work whether you want to or not. You have to conduct business in an acceptable way so not to negatively affect your reputation. And you have to pay taxes to stay out of jail. You must put your time and money into areas that gain more than they cost. Generally you must stay aware of all aspects of your career. We invest money into new equipment that will make our work better and more efficient. We invest in new market areas traveling to non-knife shows and advertising in non-knife publications. We also look into new knife related areas and consider expansion into these areas. We have debt but it is controllable. We have life and health insurance. It is expensive but not being insured is sort of like Skydiving without a reserve chute.

I suspect very few makers are on this level. It is the most difficult to survive in. It does not make your work more sought after. It does not put you in any kind of exclusive club. But if a maker can handle the pressure it can be very rewarding mentally and somewhat rewarding financially.

Daniel
 
Knifemaking is a tough business to get into fulltime. Very rewarding and at the same time an insatiable bitch to please . I have been very blessed throughout my career but it was never easy. I recomend pushing as hard as you can as a part time maker doing everything you can to develop a brand ,signature style ,build your business and find your niche. At the same time work your full time job . When your knife business takes off and you can take care of all the expenses,taxes,insurances, and still have enough left over to put some away for retirement and put the kids through college. And when it doesn't make sence to keep that full time job because it you can make it on your own .Well then and only then does it make sence to go full time.

You don't have to rely entirely on hand made knives for your living . Diversify, Teach,invent , design, write,organize. Look for alternative ways to be involved in the knife industry and help pay the bills. I don't recomend depending just on handmade knives as your only source of income. One slip up in the shop and your whole world can crumble. Plan every move and constantly look for oportunities,they will present themselves. If your afraid of working insane hours and don't have the dicipline to get off the couch and in your shop every day like clockwork and don't have a super strong work ethic, don't even concider going full time unless you want to live like a pauper for the rest of your life. Ask yourself what you really want to accomplish and how far you want to go and what you are willing to do to get it. How hard are you willing to push yourself ?Set your goals, Short term, mid term and long term and stay on track.
Take business courses at your local college. Success has little to do with how well you can make knives and everything to do with running your business like a business.
 
The last two post in addition to Ed Caffrey's post should be made into stickies. This coming from three of the best in the business.
Print them out and put it on you shop wall. I have been full time for four years. I am fifty years old and still look for any oppourtunity to better myself as a maker and business man.
BB
 
KenOnion said:
Knifemaking is a tough business to get into fulltime. Very rewarding and at the same time an insatiable bitch to please . I have been very blessed throughout my career but it was never easy. I recomend pushing as hard as you can as a part time maker doing everything you can to develop a brand ,signature style ,build your business and find your niche. At the same time work your full time job . When your knife business takes off and you can take care of all the expenses,taxes,insurances, and still have enough left over to put some away for retirement and put the kids through college. And when it doesn't make sence to keep that full time job because it you can make it on your own .Well then and only then does it make sence to go full time.

You don't have to rely entirely on hand made knives for your living . Diversify, Teach,invent , design, write,organize. Look for alternative ways to be involved in the knife industry and help pay the bills. I don't recomend depending just on handmade knives as your only source of income. One slip up in the shop and your whole world can crumble. Plan every move and constantly look for oportunities,they will present themselves. If your afraid of working insane hours and don't have the dicipline to get off the couch and in your shop every day like clockwork and don't have a super strong work ethic, don't even concider going full time unless you want to live like a pauper for the rest of your life. Ask yourself what you really want to accomplish and how far you want to go and what you are willing to do to get it. How hard are you willing to push yourself ?Set your goals, Short term, mid term and long term and stay on track.
Take business courses at your local college. Success has little to do with how well you can make knives and everything to do with running your business like a business.
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I've been fulltime for about 5 months and Ken's post is one that should be followed. You have to have the drive, determination and commitment to make it work.
Scott
 
After making knives part time for almost 20 years, a year and a half ago my then-boss and I had a difference of opinion and so after talikng with my wife and several people I have done business with, I decided to tell him to shove it and I went full-time. I am currently 35 married and have 4 little children(all girls) and a mortgage. I am planning to build a new workshop this year and i am currently doing fine.
Ken's strategy for sucess is exactly what I am doing.
I make damascus, knives, gold/silver mokume jewelry, and I teach.
I have also been making finished blades for those just starting into making, or those who want to do finish work on a knife.
I sell both domestic and international.
Work ethic is also a critical factor, again as Ken mentioned, you have to be able to set hours and stick to them. does that mean that you don't sleep in on occasion; no, but you work later in the shop to make up for it.
I still take one full day off work to relax and unwind, and to make sure my kids know who their father is.
I have quite a stong work ethic, so it is no trouble for me, I missed one day of work in 14 years of working for others, and i took that day off due to a doctors insistance that I do so.
It is not easy and you must have the self-discipline to do it, but it can be very rewarding.
Thanks,
Del
 
Be careful not to focus on the high end market to much. Granted we all need to build a few fancy pieces to test out metal, develop our skills in several mediums and push our abilities however if your focus is primarily on the high end market You will find that you will have a reativly small customer base and a ton of makers competing for that market. Broaden your market base to include lower,medium and high end knives. It is important to have something on your table and website that all knife enthusiasts can enjoy and afford. This will also broaden the spectrum of your abilities. Be original in your thinking and style and spend as much time as possable designing and developing your own flavor.
 
KenOnion said:
Be careful not to focus on the high end market to much. Granted we all need to build a few fancy pieces to test out metal, develop our skills in several mediums and push our abilities however if your focus is primarily on the high end market You will find that you will have a reativly small customer base and a ton of makers competing for that market. Broaden your market base to include lower,medium and high end knives. It is important to have something on your table and website that all knife enthusiasts can enjoy and afford. This will also broaden the spectrum of your abilities. Be original in your thinking and style and spend as much time as possable designing and developing your own flavor.
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Thanks for posting Ken. Your words are exactly what I've followed. Offer a product that is affordable and not time consuming to make. This will introduce your knives to customers who if they like your work, will come back for a more expensive piece later on when it fits into their budget.
Scott
 
Scott , Sounds like your headed in the right direction. I wish you all the best !!

This is a great thread ! I'm suprised there isn't more involvement or questions. With folks like Ed, Dan, Tai, as well as many other great makers with serious skin in the game. This is a great opportunity to learn from these amazing talents. I wish this sort of discussion was available when I started out. My goodness this sort of insight doesn't come around very often. Take advantage while you can!
 
I've read all this with great interest. I'm undoubtedly a Hobby Knife maker like DWinkler stated so perfectly. Reading this just makes me appreciate and reminds me what all of you professsional knife makers go through. I once was self employed but as a electrician, it definately wasn't all I thought it would be. Oh I did real well, stayed way to busy and paid off everything but I missed seeing my twins grow up, when I'd take off work to go do all the things I use to like to do for relaxation all I could think about is what I should be doing work wise! Lastly I thought it would be great being my own boss but in reality I just had more bosses! When my old job called and said I could have my old job back( steady decent gov job with lots of benefits) with a pay raise I folded and went back, but sometimes I still miss it. My decesion was made easier since for the first time in my life I had just got back to work after for the first time in my life I was layed up for 2 weeks with a sicatic nerve problem,no work no income.

However I can honestly say I hate getting up in the morning and going to work now adays. I'm working on a plan, investing in new tools, getting better with my knifes, building up a customer base all doing it in my spare time with hopes of someday retiring earlier so I can finally get back to doing something I like doing with some income from it. You all have been a insipiration and I've learned TONS of info while visiting here. Just wanted to say thanks and my hat is off to all you full timers!!
 
I wanted to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread. When I posted it, I didnt expect to get such well-thought-out responses and personal stories.

I think the message is clear that a good paying, steady job is a gem, and that I should do everything in my power to make knifemaking more of a "real" part-time job to see how that plays out.

If I were single with no responsibilities, I would probably try to "take the plunge" and deal with the repercussions, but I am also realistic enough to know that I refuse to put my family in any sort of risk over something that would be mainly personal want and not a sound decision for my future.

I have planned to make myself a real schedule and to manage myself as if I were a boss managing a part-time worker with set hours and due dates. If that isn't do-able, itll be clear that anything resembling fulltime would be even more of a challenge.

I also appreciate some of the advice on types of knives. One thing that rang true was the avoidance of reliance on the high-end market. While I love making art-type knives, I also like the idea of my knives being used and abused, and realize there are far more people looking for knives to hike, camp, and hunt with than high-end collectors.

Again, I really appreciate all the time people have put into responding, and I'll be looking forward to more input added to this as time goes on!
 
Hello,
I thought I would dig this up, as I still find it to be one of the more helpful threads I have read through, with some top makers taking their time to explian their journey through knifemaking.

I wanted to provide an update to my story. I took the advice of many here as well as some advice from an article in blade an issue back regarding making...I have made a constant, daily effort to treat knifemaking as a "real" part-time job. This meant getting up earlier to get to work earlier in order to get out earlier. I then have been forcing myself to work at least 1-2 hours per day and multiple on the weekends. For the past 2 months, I've been putting in a consistent 20+ hours per week of shoptime.

Not only have I seen the production of my knives increase, having finished and sold more knives in the last 2 months than the previous year, but I feel that the constant work schedule has greatly increased my skills. I also took some advice from this thread and "simpled" things down a bit, moving away from huge 15" knives and focusing on smaller knives. This allowed me to start getting really anal about everything on a smaller scale, and focusing on true practice with the multitude of steps that I was allowed to repeat in much more frequency by turning out far more knives. It also allowed me to stay within a pricepoint in selling that had more accessibility for buyers. This generated more orders and got more knives out into the hands of people.

I wanted to go back and thank everyone who had taken the time to contribute to this thread, as I took many of the bits of advice to heart and feel I am a better knifemaker as a result.
 
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I am blessed that I like my job and I love my hobby, but there is something to be said about a man who goes to a job every day that he doesnt like and does what it takes to help provide for his family. I am not saying that someone should be miserable at work if there are better opportunities, but I have a lot of respect for the people I know who go to a factory every day and do mind numbing work because it is what is best for their wives and children.
 
Hey David and Friends,

I'm glad this thread has come around again. It really would make a great link in the getting started sticky. Amazing amount of experience, insight and wisdom shared in it.

Most of what I read, gratefully so, in the forums is designing and making orientated. Now, this is business management, excellent. Next all I need is a bit more marketing related info. David, your last posts talk about changing, or adding to, your line with some smaller, more design and price available knives and how you're selling more of them now.

I wonder, how do all you good folks get the "word out" and market your stuff? Obviously we can't all go bang out of the shoot straight to Blade and Hotlanta right from the start. And, word of mouth and referrals have to start somewhere.

Thanks, Phil
 
Wow, Mr. Schott, I never realized just how much I had in common with you until I re-read this thread!

I'm up in Farmington, NH, scantly an hour's drive from you. I have admired for months the shaping and contouring you do on your handlework and guards as a design style that I had tried very hard to achive with the first couple of knives I made, which was like 18 months ago. I had thoughts that there must be something culturally about this region that spoke to both of our subconscious minds, because a couple of months ago, when I started really sitting up and noticing your knives, the design looked so familiar! I must say, however, that your execution is superior, but I'm getting better with each one.

Then I went and re-read this thread, and psychologically, you seem to be in a fairly similar place to where I am with some of the issues you addressed, especially in the original post.

We really gotta get together and compare notes sometime!
 
This was a really good Thread to Read!!!
I found the information to be very helpfull in some things I am going through at work.
(AARRGGHHHH WORK)

Thanks for this Post David.

Larry
 
Dan Zawacki said:
Wow, Mr. Schott, I never realized just how much I had in common with you until I re-read this thread!

I'm up in Farmington, NH, scantly an hour's drive from you. I have admired for months the shaping and contouring you do on your handlework and guards as a design style that I had tried very hard to achive with the first couple of knives I made, which was like 18 months ago. I had thoughts that there must be something culturally about this region that spoke to both of our subconscious minds, because a couple of months ago, when I started really sitting up and noticing your knives, the design looked so familiar! I must say, however, that your execution is superior, but I'm getting better with each one.

Then I went and re-read this thread, and psychologically, you seem to be in a fairly similar place to where I am with some of the issues you addressed, especially in the original post.

We really gotta get together and compare notes sometime!
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Sure! This summer when things calm down for me, lets plan some day to talk knives and play with tools. My shop isn't big enough for a hammer-in, but we could always just get a few beers any play around in the shop for a couple hours! You could also play on the KMG if you don't have one, just to get a feel for what they are like. IMHO, any newer maker who is serious should be dedicating all their efforts to learning the basics and saving for a top-notch grinder since its the lifeblood of the shop.
 
Actually, planning on building a clone, and the chance to examine the real beast would quite likely prove very valuable! thanks!

I have a penchant for making my equipment whenever I think it's a remotely reasonable idea. Took me a while top get my forge the way I wanted it, but now it's just about right, and I love it. After the grinder it's either a double chambered oven or a set of salt tanks. I'd love to go salts, but, frankly, they scare me.
 
This subject recently came up in another thread, so thought I'd pop this up to the top again for interested folks. Thanks everyone!
 
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