Ganzo g729 vs paramilitary 2

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RX-79G said:
And just so this is entirely clear, putting a big ziptie on your knife expressly to make the blade hook your pocket is patent infringement. There is no patent dispensation for private use.
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I knew I'd regret taking you off ignore after your self imposed exile from BF.


But you never read the patent have you?

It has to be a pin, preferably hook shaped, and PART of the blade.

A zip tie isn't part of the blade, it is removable. But of course you know that.
 
Todd21969 said:
I knew I'd regret taking you off ignore after your self imposed exile from BF.


But you never read the patent have you?

It has to be a pin, preferably hook shaped, and PART of the blade.

A zip tie isn't part of the blade, it is removable. But of course you know that.
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I think you have a very interesting and strangely narrow idea of what the words "pin" and "formed" mean. That's the language of the patent, which I read very recently. The words removable or permanent don't appear.

But do feel free to ignore me. :)
 
RX-79G said:
The Emerson patent is from 1997. The Axis patent is from 1996. They are both expiring in the next year. The trademark is a completely different issue.

And I'm not talking about what Emerson or Benchmade do to enforce their respective patents. The fact of the matter is that violations of the Axis patent are "bad for the hobby" and violations of Emerson's patent are entirely tolerated by the same Defenders of the Hobby™, on this forum.

This looking the other way with Emerson while loudly beating the drum for Benchmade is hypocritical. (And I'm not talking about Mods - that isn't your job to worry about intellectual property.)


And just so this is entirely clear, putting a big ziptie on your knife expressly to make the blade hook your pocket is patent infringement. There is no patent dispensation for private use.
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I guess you missed it. It was about a month (give or take a week) where Emerson announced something in his forum here regarding the trademark. That is what I was explicitly referring to. The comments I made regarding Benchmade are also in regards to their patent expiring soon. If we are going to be that black and white regarding real vs imagined infringements, we are sorely lacking a lot of detail from all manufacturers. Without understanding every detail of what the manufacturers position expects, there is no way to win. Nice red herring either way. What were we talking about? It sure wasn't this.
 
RevDevil said:
I guess you missed it. It was about a month (give or take a week) where Emerson announced something in his forum here regarding the trademark. That is what I was explicitly referring to. The comments I made regarding Benchmade are also in regards to their patent expiring soon. If we are going to be that black and white regarding real vs imagined infringements, we are sorely lacking a lot of detail from all manufacturers. Without understanding every detail of what the manufacturers position expects, there is no way to win. Nice red herring either way. What were we talking about? It sure wasn't this.
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No, I didn't miss it. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1377417-Emerson-wave-patten
I'm the one who contributed the verbiage and interpretation of the trademark.

What I had said, which you responded to, was that people on the forum that get upset about "counterfeiting" - especially of patented Axis locks, turn a blind eye to "counterfeiting" of Wave openers.


So if it is acceptable to bring up Axis lock patent infringment every time a particular brand is discussed, I hope you'll forgive me pointing out that shaming people for buying a particular brand based on this reasoning is applied in a haphazard way by the members, as shown by the examples I posted. In other words, my post about the subject is no less appropriate than Craytab's.

If there was a more universal approach to intellectual property on the forum, I wouldn't have anything to say on the matter. (Believe it or not.) I do think what I posted is entirely accurate and no more "bait" than anyone else's post about counterfeit in this thread.
 
At least someone stands up for what they believe in. Defending rich or poor. It's still defending for what's right.
 
AusLoX said:
At least someone stands up for what they believe in. Defending rich or poor. It's still defending for what's right.
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Defending one rich person instead of another rich person on the same issue is "defending what's right"?

It just looks like making excuses to defend a particular personal annoyance, rather than the expression of a personal philosophy.
 
RX-79G said:
Defending one rich person instead of another rich person on the same issue is "defending what's right"?

It just looks like making excuses to defend a particular personal annoyance, rather than the expression of a personal philosophy.
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I was agreeing with you...
 
RX-79G said:
Pardon me! Thanks.
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No worries. I just think until the law is changed we should all follow it. These laws protect someone's hard work and ingenuity.

People that want to go around the system are just petty thieves.
 
I feel like there's a big difference between these Chinese knockoffs and putting a zip tie on your Spyderco... :rolleyes:
Maybe legally speaking, it's similar?? But I think most knife guys just view the two differently.

I dunno who buys these Ganzo knives, but people need to stop. Just go buy a S&W swat team whatever from your local Big 5
 
RX-79G said:
In other words, my post about the subject is no less appropriate than Craytab's.
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You mean this post?

RX-79G said:
Only name brand counterfeiters are supported on Bladeforums.
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How is this even relevant to the topic? This thread was about a specific knife from a specific company. Your comment is exactly what RevDevil said it is. Bait.

So if one doesn't go after all counterfeits all the time it is hypocrisy? So in every thread where someone asks about a specific counterfeit we should detail and condemn every single possible copy right or patent infringement? How does this even make sense?

OP asked a question. I answered it.
 
craytab said:
You mean this post?



How is this even relevant to the topic? This thread was about a specific knife from a specific company. Your comment is exactly what RevDevil said it is. Bait.

So if one doesn't go after all counterfeits all the time it is hypocrisy? So in every thread where someone asks about a specific counterfeit we should detail and condemn every single possible copy right or patent infringement? How does this even make sense?

OP asked a question. I answered it.
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Have you ever commented on a single Wave copy thread that it is counterfeiting? Has there been a single SRM/Ganzo thread where you haven't commented?
 
Rasco said:
I feel like there's a big difference between these Chinese knockoffs and putting a zip tie on your Spyderco... :rolleyes:
Maybe legally speaking, it's similar?? But I think most knife guys just view the two differently.

I dunno who buys these Ganzo knives, but people need to stop. Just go buy a S&W swat team whatever from your local Big 5
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Could you explain why violating one patent for your personal use by importing something that was legally produced overseas is ethically or legally different from violating another patent by adding a Wave without permission?

It might feel different to you, but they are legally identical, and both sidestep the intellectual property rights of the patent holders, stealing income from them because you didn't purchase what they invented, built or licensed.



This kind of thinking just reminds me of people who occasionally drive drunk but get upset about legalizing pot. It's just strange.
 
RX-79G said:
Here's one of many threads about knives or modifications that attempt to sidestep the Emerson Wave patent:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/680666-Already-waved-folders

No one seems to be surprised that the DPX bottle opener or Cold Steel plate just happen to hook the pocket just like a Wave. And Emerson himself had to step up to tell CM to stop selling Wave modifications on this forum.

And then there's all the Microtech shenanigans, Schrade's history, etc. But the day to day discussion of how to infringe Emerson's patent is just normal.

I'm not in favor of any patent infringement, including illegally importing Axis locks that were legally made overseas. But I don't get the tolerance of ignoring Emerson's US patent by people in the US.
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I like Emerson's knives, but its kind of BS you can patent a tiny hook on a pocket knife, and its funny he goea after the little guys for providing modifications that allow you too wave your knife. Why does he do this? Because the only reason you'd pay 200$+ on a 154cm knife with decent fit and finish is because he has the market cornered with his wave patent.

I will continue to 'wave' my spydercos myself and avoid Emerson's in the future because I don't agree with his business practice of punishing consumers because they like the wave but don't like his over priced knives. YMMV.
 
Rx, when the wave patent expires next year, what exactly does the trademark cover?
 
Biggest +1 EVER :thumbup: I agree completely. If Emerson had his way he would try and keep it this way forever. I was pissed with what happened to CM.
stonproject said:
I like Emerson's knives, but its kind of BS you can patent a tiny hook on a pocket knife, and its funny he goea after the little guys for providing modifications that allow you too wave your knife. Why does he do this? Because the only reason you'd pay 200$+ on a 154cm knife with decent fit and finish is because he has the market cornered with his wave patent.

I will continue to 'wave' my spydercos myself and avoid Emerson's in the future because I don't agree with his business practice of punishing consumers because they like the wave but don't like his over priced knives. YMMV.
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shinyedges said:
Rx, when the wave patent expires next year, what exactly does the trademark cover?
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It is for the particular round tipped shape he currently uses on his blades with jimping. Check out the other thread for the exact phrasing. As far as I can tell, the shaped and configuration used on Waved Spyerdos, for instance, doesn't meet the trademark requirements. So you could use that shape and not violate the trademark (when the patent dies next year).

The trademark isn't functional - it is based on the same idea as Spyderco's round hole trademark. It's a look.
 
That's some good freaking news if ya ask me. Thanks
RX-79G said:
It is for the particular round tipped shape he currently uses on his blades with jimping. Check out the other thread for the exact phrasing. As far as I can tell, the shaped and configuration used on Waved Spyerdos, for instance, doesn't meet the trademark requirements. So you could use that shape and not violate the trademark (when the patent dies next year).

The trademark isn't functional - it is based on the same idea as Spyderco's round hole trademark. It's a look.
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