Gaston 444

[clampdaddy]

Indestructible tube handled knife? Ha!

 

[Gaston444]

Ok -- lets see how I can go about showing you what I mean. Forgive my formatting -- I'm not particularly forum text formatting savvy. I'll just number them and we can further discuss individual numbered points.

1. I certainly agree that edge thinness and egde angle are not the same --- but they're not mutually exclusive. As the edge bevel height increases, if that requires metal to be ground off then it does constitute a reprofile. Now if you continue to grind away metal from a more obtuse edge bevel -- it becomes thinner by nature of making something obtuse more acute. Now if I'm understanding you correctly, you have a desire to have an edge bevel thickness of .02. This preference alone does not offer enough detail.

Yes it does, because I can set by sharpening whatever bevel height I prefer, but I can't change the original blade thickness at the bevel shoulder, which indicates how tall my bevels will have to be to be closed down to a given angle... Changing anything above the edge bevel shoulder is a full blade re-finishing job... As I said, no thanks...

Also, on a truly deep hollow grind, the blade thickness changes very little near the edge, so you can change the edge angle and the primary bevel's shoulders remains the same thickness no matter what the edge bevel angle is...

Since you're so particular -- you have to specify what height you want the edge bevel to be .02. So if you were to measure from the apex of the edge to the spine -- you'd have to specify where along that span you require it to be .02.

No I don't, since I consider only V-edges, so the measurement is wherever the edge angle I want reaches 0.02". In the case of a 20-24° inclusive edge, the bevels are roughly around 1/16" or less tall, which is reasonable...

6. If you look around the Busse forums -- you'll see that people have no hesitations at all about using a belt grinder -- because they don't feel that it threatens the heat treatment.

I am afraid as to what this implies... Does this imply that when you buy a Busse, you need to get a belt grinder too?

7. In conclusion -- if you do in fact want to compare apples to oranges -- eliminate as many variables that render the two test subjects different. That means you need to try to make the edge angle the same, the edge bevel thickness the same,

I really have a hard time following you: The purpose of comparison is to highlight the differences: You are saying I should level out those differences, at my expense, before making those comparisons? The whole point of comparisons is to inform you about what you are getting out of the box after paying for it...

I have to say everything I am hearing makes me want to run a mile in tight shoes away from Busse knives... I'll re-iterate that the only data I am interested in is a caliper measurement of the edge bevel shoulder (and on what spine thickness it sits on)...

Gaston

 

[Rob_Mob]

I'm sorry -- I tried --- literally everything I wrote was either dismissed, challenged, or ignored. The only thing I can conclude is that Gaston444 knows more about physics than Stephen Hawking, more about psychology than Sigmund Freud, more about the meaning of life than the Dalai Lama, and certainly more about knives than every knife maker in history.

Gaston444 -- for the record -- I did everything I could to offer reasonable and rational points to which, based on your response, you felt were worthless. I'm now actually calling you out --- I challenge you to a YouTube chop off --- if your Trail Master wins I'll PayPal you $100. Same should go in reverse -- obviously. So I propose we compare a brand new Trail Master vs B.I.G NMFSH. I refuse to compare a battle mistress to the trail master --- because it's so unfair and obvious that the Trail Master will lose. What do you say we put our money where our mouth is. . . Do you accept my challenge?

 

[Lance23]

Yes please.
Please please please.

 

[Firestrike]

He had the nerve to write that in another thread and I did not want to pollute that thread with this, but I am using his post to make a point to him that it sure looks like he is full of it and it makes it hard to believe anything he says when he claims a non one piece hollow handled knife made of 440C to be tougher than INFI, 3V and everything else that ever roamed the earth. Next he will claim that the 440C he used has pieces of meteorite in it.

Do not worry about polluting this thread, I made this thread to call this guy out and to allow for some old school hogs to help shut this guy up....

So far he has been offered a chance to buy a Busse and if he did not like it, someone would purchase it from him...

He has been offered an impartial testing as linked earlier by Cobalt...

He has been offered $100 dollars for a chop off challange...

Gaston, now is the time to put up or shut up.....what more motivation do you need...Busse is well respected for a reason around here, no other knife company I know of has people willing to put up thier money and blades to back up thier mouths...That should give you some small indication of the magic Jerry has woven into his blades...

Honestly if you don't put up, it is very likely that your user name will be totally laughed at for many years to come...but its going to really be hard to live down the hollow handle in 440c > Busse comment.

 

[breavis5694]

Is anybody else frustrated that he won't even comment on my insults.


They are slicey lil quips, right? A few momma jokes may be in order....

Ok so GASTONs mother, a potato, and the three stooges walk into a junk yard....

I'm 90% sure this guy is a terrorist, the things that he believes make people believing in 72 virgins seem more put together, or at least better thought out.

 

[Cobalt]

The only edge holding test I've ever seen that had knives built specifically for the test, to a uniform shape and standard, in Blade of KI in the mid-late 1990s, had 440C crush everything else in every respect, including D-2, ATS34, INFI, and the first two CPM cutlery steels of the time... The disparity in cutting Manilla rope was pretty wide to even the next best one...

Also when a Randall Model 14 in 440B was pitted agaisnt a Busse INFI Sasquatch, at similar edge thicknesses, chopping concrete, even for that less than scientific test medium, forged 440B came out way on top...

440C has never been replaced for many industrial applications.

Of course newer steels could be a little better, but quite frankly the idea that vs most of them the disparity would be great, at equal heat treatment, seems a little, shall we say, farfetched... It wouldn't surprise me at all if it turned out to be still the best in some mediums. And S30V doesn't stave off staining as well as 440C does, so it is still hard to beat for stain resistance...

Gaston

Gaston, you keep on mentioning that 1990's comparison of 440C to all others and besting them. Now you are required to show us that test, or be forever labeled that liar you seem to be. I remember those days, ATS34 is indeed a much better steel than 440C and I like 440C. But you are throwing out such lies it isn't even funny. Also a 1990's test with INFI? really? I was there, and not even Lynn Thompson could get his hands on INFI in the late 90's, I know he tried to buy mine. Where were you at that time, Gaston? I don't remember you on BF when it was created after all the in fighting at KF?

Also Gaston I remember that Randal 14 comparison. That was total bunk and I believe that guy fully attempted to discredit Busse. In fact I had 3 Randal 14's. Beautiful knives with green micarta handles. I used one and the edge didn't last long at all. Oh and I believe those Randals in the mid 2000's were 440B not C, but maybe you have evidence to the contrary of that. Talk about an obtuse, convex edge. That was Randall. Thick convex edge, just the edge you hate. Also a convex blade grind, making an even thicker blade. That Busse had a thin competition cutter edge. Again apples to oranges.

I believe you to be a straight out liar and you have been called out several times on this forum and others to put up information or knives, but you won't because you know your facts are lies and your knives will fail. Enjoy what you got, but when you put down a knife that is obviously leap years ahead of what you got just to make your stuff look better, there will be consequences.

 

[zombieassassin]

I'll do a batoning challenge with my TGLB against that Trail Master. Through sheet metal and bricks.....I bet that cold steel TM breaks in two. From past pics of mine....I know what my TGLB will do...does he know what that TM will do other than break?

 

[Gravelface]

Take your own advice Gaston....put those tight shoes on and run. From the knife world....

 

[rickshooter]

Is this a good time and place to plug the BoloB13? I promise it will be better than the trailmaster

 

[breavis5694]

Is this a good time and place to plug the BoloB13? I promise it will be better than the trailmaster

Wow Rick, I really found your shameless plug of the BoloB13 very tasteful in execution.

And yes it will be totally better than the trail master with beaver tooth grind or whatever that kid was talking about....

 

[Cobalt]

Here is more from that other thread:

You can't say I misrepresent the article if you haven't found it yourself, can you?

The article in question is, again, from KI or Blade, and dates very close to the first time I ever heard of "powder" Crucible Particle Metallurgy steels, so long, long before these "powder" steels ever became widely available in knives you could easily buy...: I was surprised the testers were even able to include two "powder" steels in the test, as I only knew of one existing at the time I read the article, and that was CPM 3V...: That was a big surprise..

I believe the steel 440C beat the daylights out of was CPM 3V (and CPM SS100, since I remember clearly there were two CPM "powder" steels included in the test): As I said, that test included two CPM "powder" steels long before I ever heard of production or even custom knives being offered in one "powder" steel... The magazine had really pulled all the stops on that one...

Now we know the the most problable date for the article is 1997-98, and it makes sense because by 1998 I got a Spyderco Civilian (a knife without peer then or now), and I kind of lost interest in all other knives for about 15 years after that...: I certainly would not have read this article much past 1998, as by 1999 my hobby interests had completely changed, towards miniature modelling...


INFI began in 1998, so it fits within that timeframe... It was very new then too I remember...

You certainly have the wrong article if it is not from the late '90s. I do remember the "1997-98" article was very odd in that it failed to praise 440C's results, despite the data within the article being quite overwhelming... There was a sense of downright schizophrenia in the conclusions, as if the 440C results had to be downplayed... ATS34 did very, very poorly, as did INFI, CPM 3V, CPM SS100, and even D2 did not do much better (though I vaguely remember D2 might have been a bit ahead of the large pack of distant losers). In fact there was really nothing that even came close to 440C for edge-holding on soft or semi-hard materials, particularly manilla rope...

I lost all interest in "supersteels" after that... Other than 440C that is...

Surely there is someone out there with a complete 97-99 run of both KI or Blade...

Gaston

YELLOW: you can't even find the article your self. I do believe you misrepresented the article as stated in the other thread. That is a kind way of saying you are a liar, which is more accurate.

Green Blue : So the article was in 1997. Well, I hate to break it to you but INFI was just coming out in late 1997 and one of the first to get it before it went anywhere else was Ron Hood and he got his in late 1997. No one else had INFI in late 1997, further proving that you are concocting data into the article that did not exist. But maybe I am wrong, so please post the article, I would love to see how 440C, beat D2, ATS34, INFI and other known steels.

I was there during that time, where were you, since I don't remember you. There wasn't many of us on the forums back then. Here is the other ridiculous thread where he is posting:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...ty-in-Spyderco-knives?p=15035292#post15035292

 

[Jerry Busse]

In 1998 we challenged the knife industry to duplicate our "LIVE" performance tests at the BLADE show like we have done so many times before.

None have accepted. . . . . 17 years later and not a single manufacturer has stepped up . . . .There's a reason for that.

We ONLY acknowledge performance tests from the manufacturers themselves, NOT from their customers.

If a company won't step up to the plate and demonstrate what their knives can handle, that is their decision.

We did, that's done, let's drink! :thumbup:

Jerry

I'm locking this one down.