Gaucho knives and cuchillos criollos of South America

Trubetzkoy said:
I'd regard that as a wise decision, my friend. Again, good things come to those who wait -- especially when it comes to gaucho knives and Virginia shipping labels.
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🤞
kamagong said:
Variable is a good way of putting it Jer. No need for you to bother with the CS I think. You already have excellent examples of gaucho knives, so you can afford to wait until the right big one comes along.
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You're right.
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screened porch said:
I just decided to not buy the CS Facon at a great price with free shipping. It doesn't bother me if the name is inapt, or that it isn't much more Argentinian than I am. What put me off is that it's made in India, and I have enough big knives from India to suspect that quality might be variable. If it were made in China, I'd know it was made in a modern factory.
Also I have that 10" Henckels Twin that I think is already impractically large, and it's only .025 mm thinner than the CS, so the CS wouldn't be giving me much additional beefiness.
(And I could buy two other things I'm looking at instead.)

My new Guyabera and Mora is still sitting on its shipping label in Virginia.

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Looks like you could throw a baseball with that toe pose ;)
 
Trubetzkoy said:
Lately I've been mopey that I don't own any gaucho-style knives by Herder. Recently, when I came across an old, unissued bayonet/dagger blade by them, I decided to change this and make myself a Herder facón.

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I believe it to be from around the WW1 period, but perhaps H herder will have a better idea. In any case, I dig it, and I'd say I was able to reach a very reasonable agreement with the seller as far as the price is concerned.

As for the handle in the first pic, I took it from an old (but not too old) Atahualpa fork, and it's what I originally wanted to use for the project. However, seeing it next to the blade, I think I'll probably wait until I find something more suitable -- slimmer and with a more understated elegance to it. We'll see. Any suggestions for the guard are welcome.
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Yes, that blade does date to pre WWI, but was probably offered post WWI as well. Enclosed is a catalog illustration from c. 1910 showing that blade in dagger form.
That blade was actually used with several different handle configurations. You're not going to "modify" your blade shape are you?

Herder dagger c1910 .jpg
 
herder said:
Yes, that blade does date to pre WWI, but was probably offered post WWI as well. Enclosed is a catalog illustration from c. 1910 showing that blade in dagger form.
That blade was actually used with several different handle configurations. You're not going to "modify" your blade shape are you?
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Modify as in regrinding the blade? No, I'm not. South American facones typically come with exactly this type of blade, and they have continued to be made like this through the years with resurfacing or recovered old blades such as this one. Below is an example with an early blade, whose hilt and scabbard however date to the 1970s (made by Tramontano Hnos.):

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Do you approve?

Edit: Interestingly, besides featuring the better-known three-line logo, the blade shown in the catalog you provided (which, I just noticed -- well, my German wife did -- is not in German but in Dutch) was offered in 7" and 8", while mine measures 9". Here's a picture of it next to a hunting dagger I've shown previously which features the same type of blade, but in 8":

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It would be interesting to see if there are any catalogs offering this blade shape in 9" and with the fork logo.
 
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Trubetzkoy said:
Modify as in regrinding the blade? No, I'm not. South American facones typically come with exactly this type of blade, and they have continued to be made like this through the years with resurfacing or recovered old blades such as this one. Below is an example with an early blade, whose hilt and scabbard however date to the 1970s (made by Tramontano Hnos.):

bsPQfGG.jpeg


Do you approve?

Edit: Interestingly, besides featuring the better-known three-line logo, the blade shown in the catalog you provided (which, I just noticed -- well, my German wife did -- is not in German but in Dutch) was offered in 7" and 8", while mine measures 9". Here's a picture of it next to a hunting dagger I've shown previously which features the same type of blade, but in 8":

y48iAmD.jpeg


It would be interesting to see if there are any catalogs offering this blade shape in 9" and with the fork logo.
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Good to hear that you are going to leave that blade shape as is and yes, I certainly approve of your idea to create a tasteful Facones like the one you pictured. :)
In looking through an F. Herder catalog from c. 1928, several more daggers were shown with your same blade shape. Those blade lengths ranged at 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10 inches.
All of those blades featured the same blade logo as I had shown previously. You may already know, but the Herder "Fork" shape is actually a Candelabrum which was first registered by Herder in 1848.
Here is another sheath knife from that c. 1928 catalog which shows that candelabrum marking.

Herder Candelabrum stamp 1928 .jpg
 
Ok, our recent experience at a Brazilian steak house, it was great amd filled my wife and I up to overstuffed, all kinds of delicious meats and foods. Being a knife guy, I wanted to bring my Verijero but they had all the knives needed when they came to the table to shave off slices of meat from the long thin spits, sharp industrial looking with white plastic handles with the end turned up. I would loved to see a traditional gaucho style knife slice that food.
 
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herder said:
You may already know, but the Herder "Fork" shape is actually a Candelabrum which was first registered by Herder in 1848.
Here is another sheath knife from that c. 1928 catalog which shows that candelabrum marking.

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Thanks for sharing these! Actually, no, I had no idea that was supposed to be a candelabrum🫣, though I did remember that logo was from the 1800s.

herder said:
While looking for some information for Trubetzkoy, I ran across a picture of an F. Herder knife from c. 1928 with strong similarities to your Verijero.

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That's very neat. It does look a lot like Dan's knife, although an interesting difference is that these early knives almost always had straight handles. By the way, I'm curious: How were these described in German catalogs? Jagdmesser, Jagddolch?
 
screened porch said:
Maybe after a bushfire would be safe?

USPS is still awaiting my new criollo, despite the 3-day-old shipping label.

Here's one I do have:
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Ticks are really bad this year. It’s on the news all the time.

The mild winter we had aggravated this issue significantly this season.
Lyme disease truly scares me.

Any news Jer on your new criollo ?
Anytime now 👍😎

Trubetzkoy said:
make myself a Herder facón.
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Oh man 👍😎
I can’t wait 😍
Such a cool project !
I know you’ll do a beautiful job when the right handle/ idea comes along 👍

herder said:
Dan, Great pictures as always. You are quite the renaissance man. :)
While looking for some information for Trubetzkoy, I ran across a picture of an F. Herder knife from c. 1928 with strong similarities to your Verijero.

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Gracias Neal ! 😊
Than you very much for sharing your knowledge and insights !!!
Very informative!

That Herder looks indeed similar to my treasured Verijero !

A versatile blade shape indeed!


cbach8tw said:
I would loved to see a traditional gaucho style knife slice that food.
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I so wish I could take my Verijero to South American restaurant and have it taste asado.
There are none in our small town. One day perhaps in Montreal or Toronto Verijero will have its chance 😎

screened porch said:
My new little one is on the way
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🤞today ? 😎

Hola gauchos 😊, my “china” and I just survived quite the storm ⛈️ aboard our little “Serena”
It has now passed and the sun is shining through the parted clouds ⛅️

Verijero right by my side 😎

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CelloDan said:
Ticks are really bad this year. It’s on the news all the time.

The mild winter we had aggravated this issue significantly this season.
Lyme disease truly scares me.

Any news Jer on your new criollo ?
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I'm also scared of Lyme's, and there are more ticks than there used to be.

My new criollo has left my regional post office and should be in my town anytime and in my mailbox tomorrow.

I have a 10-inch overall one coming from the same guy. I was going to wait till I saw the first one, but couldn't stand the suspense. I expect them to be plain but serviceable.
 
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