Gaucho knives and cuchillos criollos of South America

[Trubetzkoy]

While oiling my cuchillos, it occurred to me that I don't own one with filework. Got to do something about that.

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Is that a picture of a new knife you procured after your realization? Or did you do those marks yourself on a knife you already owned?

 

[kamagong]

Is that a picture of a new knife you procured after your realization? Or did you do those marks yourself on a knife you already owned?

It's a new-to-me knife that is currently with the postman. I may have to pick your brain about disassembling and then reassembling a metal handled puñal. Though my knife seems to be in decent enough shape, it appears the factory should have taken a bit more care when putting it together as there is a noticeable gap between the handle and the botón.

 

[Trubetzkoy]

It's a new-to-me knife that is currently with the postman. I may have to pick your brain about disassembling and then reassembling a metal handled puñal. Though my knife seems to be in decent enough shape, it appears the factory should have taken a bit more care when putting it together as there is a noticeable gap between the handle and the botón.

View attachment 2675185

Haha nice! I followed that Simbra for a while. Glad to see it ended up in good hands.

To be honest, the gap doesn't seem too bad -- at least it's straight. Still, maybe you won't even need to take the handle off to fix it, which would require filing the tang thus creating the risk of not having enough of it for re-peening. If you find that there's enough room for the handle to meet the bolster flush and remain straight, and if the handle is filled with meltable resin (which it probably is), you could heat it up with the blade held on a vise (with a wet towel around it just in case) and then gently peen the tang some more while the resin is soft.

If there's enough room, that should create enough pressure to push down the handle. Be very careful to stop as soon as you meet a significant amount of resistance though, since otherwise you'll dent the pommel (especially with the nickel silver being hot).

 

[kamagong]

Hahaha...you must have been one of the thirteen watching.

I have no idea if I spent too much on this knife, but I got it at a price that I could live with. It checked off several boxes -- Tandil-made, with a metal handle, file worked blade, and vaina picasa.

Thanks for the pointers, I'll file them away for future reference. I don't anticipate using this knife, so there isn't any point in risking damage with my amateur attempts at repair. I'll probably keep it as is, as an interesting exemplar of the type.

 

[Trubetzkoy]

kamagong I think the price was more than fair. It's a nice, good-sized knife, probably from around the 60s (not sure at all though). I also really like those simpler "half-repousse" stamped handles, and the sheath is beautiful. Plus, I'd imagine you got it cheaper than the asking price. I didn't go for it myself simply because I'm focusing more on older puñales at the moment.

Do share more pics when you get it and let us know how it goes with the handle -- if you decide to fiddle with it, that is.

Edit: That's exactly the type of handle and sheath fittings I'd like for my Herder facón. Something like that, or some German hardware of the type used for the ready-made knives exported to South America back in the day.

 

[kamagong]

Looks like you have a couple of projects T Trubetzkoy . Which one are you going to tackle first, making a sheath for the Kirschbaum or the larger one of handling the Herder and then sheathing it?

 

[Trubetzkoy]

Looks like you have a couple of projects T Trubetzkoy . Which one are you going to tackle first, making a sheath for the Kirschbaum or the larger one of handling the Herder and then sheathing it?

It will depend on whether I find a suitable donor for the Herder blade. I do have the handle from the Atahualpa fork that I showed a while ago, but I'd love something a bit simpler like your Simbra. I also want to make a sheath for the puñal with the dog pommel, which I'd probably tackle before the one for the Kirschbaum.

 

[Trubetzkoy]

Early on in this thread, I shared a pic of a gauchesque, bowie-inspired Chilean knife made by Cutts & Sons Sheffield in the 19th century, which appears in Adams et al.'s The antique bowie knife book. Here it is again, for everyone's convenience:

I could never find more examples by this maker, except for a few table knives — until recently, when I found another puñal-style knife on an auction site. I figured I'd share it here:

These victorian knives really speak to me, both because of their general style and beacuse one doesn't encounter them very often in the South American style, except for the odd Rodgers here and there. Seeing the higher resolution pictures of this particular example — whose blade is also marked with the phrase "Toledo temper" — made me pay attention to some features I hadn't noticed in the Chilean one, such as the "Spanish notch" where the edge starts (which reminds me a bit of a Wolfe & Clark boiwe shown in Zalesky and Worthen's A sure defense) and the Solingen-style file work on the spine (similar to that on puñales made by Kirschbaum and others). As for the hilt, this one is simpler, less bowiesque than that of the Chilean example, with a hollow pressed handle (seemingly in silver or silver-plated nickel silver) and no guard, reminding me of my Ecroyd & Co. (shown in post #627). This appears to confirm that Sheffield makers would use cutlery-style handles in their exports to South America to emulate local chiseled handles. Another interesting feature of this piece, which also sets it apart from the Chilean knife, is its faceted (but still grooved) bolster, which makes me wonder if it was made for the Argentinian market.

Anyways, an interesting example I thought I'd share!

 

[screened porch]

I was thinking about these this morning. I'm not wild about either one.

I wish the Nieto had the deeper heel and larger heel choil of the mystery knife. As it is, you don't get any purchase on the heel choil, and the heel itself is gracefully rounded to lead your finger smoothly onto the cutting edge. I also would rather the Nieto had the belly of the mystery knife, instead of a straight, almost in-curved edge.
I wish the mystery knife had had its antler shouldered to receive the end-caps. As it is, it looks like I assembled it.

 

[Trubetzkoy]

I was thinking about these this morning. I'm not wild about either one.

I wish the Nieto had the deeper heel and larger heel choil of the mystery knife. As it is, you don't get any purchase on the heel choil, and the heel itself is gracefully rounded to lead your finger smoothly onto the cutting edge. I also would rather the Nieto had the belly of the mystery knife, instead of a straight, almost in-curved edge.
I wish the mystery knife had had its antler shouldered to receive the end-caps. As it is, it looks like I assembled it.

Sounds like the Nieto would make for a good project knife!

 

[screened porch]

Sounds like the Nieto would make for a good project knife!

Hmm. A positive attitude!

 

[kamagong]

1. Artisan forged cuchillo
2. Solingen import
3. Tandil-made

Just got this in. A Simbra-brand puñal with a vaina picasa. It looks unused, and I don't think it's ever been sharpened, not even by the factory. Though quite pointy, the edge is a full millimeter thick.





Closeup of the markings.



T Trubetzkoy you were right about the gap. Now that I have the knife in hand the gap doesn't look that bad. I'm going to leave it as is.

 

[Trubetzkoy]

1. Artisan forged cuchillo
2. Solingen import
3. Tandil-made

Just got this in. A Simbra-brand puñal with a vaina picasa. It looks unused, and I don't think it's ever been sharpened, not even by the factory. Though quite pointy, the edge is a full millimeter thick.

View attachment 2680202

View attachment 2680203

Closeup of the markings.

View attachment 2680204

T Trubetzkoy you were right about the gap. Now that I have the knife in hand the gap doesn't look that bad. I'm going to leave it as is.

That's such a handsome knife, man. You're making me regret not making an offer .

As for the seemingly unsharpened edge, I'd say the knife was sharpened at one point but the blade was reprofiled and refinished. You can see some horizontal grind marks at the very beginning of the edge. It doesn't matter though, and I hope you can put a killer edge on it.

The blade was 7", right? If so, great practical size.

 

[kamagong]

That's such a handsome knife, man. You're making me regret not making an offer .

As for the seemingly unsharpened edge, I'd say the knife was sharpened at one point but the blade was reprofiled and refinished. You can see some horizontal grind marks at the very beginning of the edge. It doesn't matter though, and I hope you can put a killer edge on it.

The blade was 7", right? If so, great practical size.

I think you are correct about the reprofiling and refinishing. I studied my puñal a bit yesterday, and I do see evidence of differential polishing, vertical near the bolster and horizontal towards the point. The refinishing has obscured the original factory finish, but you can still see some of it with the right light and angle.

The blade is approximately 7", good memory. I think I agree with you, that is a great practical size. I adore my cuchillo macho, but it just might be too much for general use.

 

[Trubetzkoy]

Remember the Herder bayonet-style blade I showed a while ago (in post #997), which I wanted to make a facón out of? Well, log post coming...

As I mentioned back then, I originally wanted to pair the blade with the handle I took from an Atahualpa fork I found for cheap, but in the end I decided to wait to see if a more suitable donor would appear. So, I've been on the lookout, and it hasn't been easy because I was looking for a handle with a more subtle engraving like that of kamagong 's Simbra or, alternatively, an old German handle. On top of that, I needed a matching sheath/scabbard or sheath fitttings; or at the very least a handle simple enough to look good with a simple picaza sheath. And, of course, I didn't want to have to destroy a knife of any historical or aesthetic significance, so I was hoping to find a knife with a damaged blade, or some fittings sold separately.

Now it appears the wait is over, as I recently got lucky and found an old German dagger that will make for a great donor, made sometime after WWII and marked only with the name of the US retailer York Cutlery Co.:

Despite being an oldie, this is a knife I won't feel bad taking apart. These post-WWII import knives were often of limited quality, particularly in terms of construction and fit and finish, and that's definitely the case with this dagger. It has a faux rat-tail construction, with a fake peened tang at the end of the handle, but with what in reality is a very short tang, as I found using a magnet. Additionally, the guard fits rater poorly and the slot on the scabbard throat is very sloppy. The blade itself, though a bit too slender for the handle IMHO, appears to be of decent quality — it's chrome-plated carbon steel, so I might save it for another project, but I'd probably have to lengthen the tang.

One concern I had was that the seller claimed the handle and scabbard to be aluminum, which of course wouldn't be great in hollow format and definitely wouldn't be "historically correct" for my purposes. However, the warm tone in the pictures suggested to me that it was nickel silver, and I confirmed that when I received the knife yesterday. That's rare for German imports from this period, as cast aluminum was the main choice back then. I actually suspect that the handle and scabbard were leftovers from before the war, most likely intended for South America, as I've seen this exact same pattern in early 1900s gaucho knives. For example, below you can see it in a Uruguayan example (in fact, both knives in the picture appear to have the same handle, but the larger one appears to have it attached the wrong way, as was originally the case with my Kirschbaum puñal from post #1,221):

One thing I dont love is the fact that the guard is made of brass, which isn't common with facones with nickel silver fittings. Perhaps I'll plate the guard and scabbard throat, or maybe I'll make a simpler nickel silver guard from scratch. We'll see...

I'll keep you guys updated on the process!

 

[screened porch]

with a fake peened tang

Wow. Never heard of such!

 

[Trubetzkoy]

Wow. Never heard of such!

The thing is that these handle patterns include a pommel hole (or, shall we say, a butt hole, since there is no real, separate pommel) for the tang to stick out, and that has to be covered somehow. However, I think the fact they covered it with a peened steel pin resembling the end of a tang is no coincidence...

 

[MichelGuendler]

Today's theme: MOP-handled antiques.

1.

2.

3.

4.

Knife 1 I've already shown a few times here, before and after its restoration.

Knives 2-3 are very similar examples -- so similar in fact that it would appear that they were made in the same shop (example 2 is almost identical to mine, while in the case of example 3 the most striking resemblance is in the scabbard). Since example 2 bears the name of Broqua & Scholberg, a retailer that imported knives from Belgium, I'm led to think that my knife might've been made in the latter country, although the person who sold it to me said it was brought to the US from Germany as a war souvenir.

Finally, knife 4 is a victorian example made by Walters & Co of Sheffield. The auction site from which I took the picture actually described this piece as a bowie knife, although the blade profile makes me think that it was purposefully made in the South American style, even if it wound up elsewhere.

Hi I just wanted to contributed to this post.
Broqua & Scholberg did not manufacture knives in Belgium. As a matter of fact, Scholberg never ever produced a single knife. They were established in Belgium as importers and gunsmiths. They used to produce guns in Liege, but that's everything that was ever produced by them. As for their knives, daggers, facons, and swords, they used to import from many established producers. Your knife was most likely than not produced in France, where the majority of the gaucho knives made for Scholberg were produced. Scholberg had an outstanding commercial relationship with four French knifemakers: 1) Forges Jean Delaire, Thiers; 2) Guyot Freres, Nogent; 3) Thuilier Lefrant, Thiers; and 4) Henri Ducret-Guyot, Nogent. They used Felix Georget (a relative of the Guyots) as their commercial agent in doing the import to South America. At its peak, Scholberg had 3 stores across Brazil, Uruguay and Argentina: a house in Pelotas, Brazil, another one in Montevideo, Uruguay, and one in Rosario de Santa Fe, Argentina.
The house in South Brazil existed from 1850 to 1854 as a subsidiary of another, very famous Belgian gunsmith/importer: Laport. But it was bought out by Scholberg's associate, Alexandre Gadet in 1854 and rebranded as Scholberg & Gadet. It ceased operations in 1937.
The store in Montevideo started out as a subsidiary of Hipolito de Gacquerel, Uruguay's very first private importer of guns and swords, but in the 1870s it was sold to Gacquerel's two partners, Alfonso de Broqua and Alphonse Scholberg, thus creating yours truly Broqua & Scholberg. Broqua & Scholberg closed its doors on June 5th, 1975, but a local knifemaking corporation still produces some new knives under this and other brands' names.
Finally, the house in Argentina opened its doors in 1882, lead by the Catelli brothers, cousins of Mr. Alfonso Broqua and with his permission (thus also named Broqua & Scholberg). It closed down in the early 1930s.
I hope that helps.
Michel G.

 

[Trubetzkoy]

Hi I just wanted to contributed to this post.
Broqua & Scholberg did not manufacture knives in Belgium. As a matter of fact, Scholberg never ever produced a single knife. They were established in Belgium as importers and gunsmiths. They used to produce guns in Liege, but that's everything that was ever produced by them. As for their knives, daggers, facons, and swords, they used to import from many established producers. Your knife was most likely than not produced in France, where the majority of the gaucho knives made for Scholberg were produced. Scholberg had an outstanding commercial relationship with four French knifemakers: 1) Forges Jean Delaire, Thiers; 2) Guyot Freres, Nogent; 3) Thuilier Lefrant, Thiers; and 4) Henri Ducret-Guyot, Nogent. They used Felix Georget (a relative of the Guyots) as their commercial agent in doing the import to South America. At its peak, Scholberg had 3 stores across Brazil, Uruguay and Argentina: a house in Pelotas, Brazil, another one in Montevideo, Uruguay, and one in Rosario de Santa Fe, Argentina.
The house in South Brazil existed from 1850 to 1854 as a subsidiary of another, very famous Belgian gunsmith/importer: Laport. But it was bought out by Scholberg's associate, Alexandre Gadet in 1854 and rebranded as Scholberg & Gadet. It ceased operations in 1937.
The store in Montevideo started out as a subsidiary of Hipolito de Gacquerel, Uruguay's very first private importer of guns and swords, but in the 1870s it was sold to Gacquerel's two partners, Alfonso de Broqua and Alphonse Scholberg, thus creating yours truly Broqua & Scholberg. Broqua & Scholberg closed its doors on June 5th, 1975, but a local knifemaking corporation still produces some new knives under this and other brands' names.
Finally, the house in Argentina opened its doors in 1882, lead by the Catelli brothers, cousins of Mr. Alfonso Broqua and with his permission (thus also named Broqua & Scholberg). It closed down in the early 1930s.
I hope that helps.
Michel G.

Thanks for this very thorough info! I was aware that Scholberg didn't manufacture but imported knives, but I wasn't aware of the French connection. The only thing that still puzzles me about my knife is that the person who sold it to me said his father brought it from Germany right after WWII. But then again, I guess that's why they say: "Buy the knife, not the story."

 

[MichelGuendler]

Well, you shouldn't worry too much, that knife is worth quite some bucks lol. It might have been in Germany after WW2, but with all certainty it was brought by someone that had been in Uruguay prior to WW2. I don't know if you know this, but Scholberg is the most respected brand of Gaucho knives, like ever. They had many competitors, many also very good. But Scholberg knives have some sort of mystique behind them.