Gaucho knives and cuchillos criollos of South America

[Trubetzkoy]

It has always bugged me that the Who-ca's blade is backwards in its sheath from all my others.
[...]
I made up a yarn to explain it, but I think the people who packed the knife just made a mistake. So, finally, duh- wet-forming is so quick and easy, why not just fix it?
Good thing I have others to play with while I endure the agony of waiting for it to dry.

Maybe they sheathed it for a left-handed person, who would carry it on the other side.

Something that might help to shape the sheath to your preferred blade orientation is using a hammer or a mallet to gently hit the sheath on the (new) spine side as you push the blade in. I usually do this when I make this type of sheath from scratch, as it helps stretch and flatten the leather where the spine will be.

p.s.: I really like the look of that fluted antler!

 

[screened porch]

Maybe they sheathed it for a left-handed person, who would carry it on the other side.

Something that might help to shape the sheath to your preferred blade orientation is using a hammer or a mallet to gently hit the sheath on the (new) spine side as you push the blade in. I usually do this when I make this type of sheath from scratch, as it helps stretch and flatten the leather where the spine will be.

p.s.: I really like the look of that fluted antler!

Could be. It's sheathed for me now.
That's a good idea about the hammer. I got away with pinching and pushing.
Me too on the looks of the antler. And the inoxidizable steel is good and hard. The whole knife has been growing on me exponentially.

 

[Arathol]

It has always bugged me that the Who-ca's blade is backwards in its sheath from all my others.
View attachment 3002380View attachment 3002382
I made up a yarn to explain it, but I think the people who packed the knife just made a mistake. So, finally, duh- wet-forming is so quick and easy, why not just fix it?
Good thing I have others to play with while I endure the agony of waiting for it to dry.

Here is what I see......
From the ones I have and looking at a bunch of them on line, some but not all of the knives in a leather sheath are done this way

But there are some with leather sheaths that look reversible or are made the other way around. There is a prolific ebay dealer with many older knives that seem to have generic replacement leather sheaths the are reversible so its hard to tell......
The fancy ones with metal or decorated sheaths seem to be mostly made this way

Not sure of the reasoning, maybe just because.....

 

[Trubetzkoy]

Nice examples, screened porch and A Arathol . By the way, I really like the second knife you showed, Arathol. I believe you've shared before. Who's the maker?

Based on my (limited) experience making sheaths of this kind and watching videos of others making them, I'd say pretty much all of them are in principle reversible, since the leather is usually cut symmetrically (even if the blade is not entirely symmetrical). This is, among other reasons, to facilitate stitch alignment. Depending on factors such as how snug the fit is and how much wet forming was involved, however, changing the orientation may take more work in some cases (e.g., more wet forming, hammering the spine side).

When it comes to metal or picazo-type sheaths, some makers, especially from Germany, used removable or disassemblable throats, which in some cases allow changing the blade orientation (in addition to cleaning the interior of the sheath more easily). Here are a few examples from my collection:

 

[Arathol]

Nice examples, screened porch and A Arathol . By the way, I really like the second knife you showed, Arathol. I believe you've shared before. Who's the maker?

Based on my (limited) experience making sheaths of this kind and watching videos of others making them, I'd say pretty much all of them are in principle reversible, since the leather is usually cut symmetrically (even if the blade is not entirely symmetrical). This is, among other reasons, to facilitate stitch alignment. Depending on factors such as how snug the fit is and how much wet forming was involved, however, changing the orientation may take more work in some cases (e.g., more wet forming, hammering the spine side).

When it comes to metal or picazo-type sheaths, some makers, especially from Germany, used removable or disassemblable throats, which in some cases allow changing the blade orientation (in addition to cleaning the interior of the sheath more easily). Here are a few examples from my collection:

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I have posted it elsewhere. Its a JUCA.

As for being reversible, the large Boker above seems to not be reversible. It goes in fine as shown, but turn the blade around and it won't fit. It goes in most of the way but once it gets to within about 1" of the handle it won't go any further. The sheath is not quite symmetrical, its made so that when the seam is more or less centered its a couple mms larger on one side to allow a proper fit of the 1/4" thick blade. In playing around with the sheath it seems like if you were to try to get it any further in the edge would cut the leather at the throat.

 

[Trubetzkoy]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I have posted it elsewhere. Its a JUCA.

As for being reversible, the large Boker above seems to not be reversible. It goes in fine as shown, but turn the blade around and it won't fit. It goes in most of the way but once it gets to within about 1" of the handle it won't go any further. The sheath is not quite symmetrical, its made so that when the seam is more or less centered its a couple mms larger on one side to allow a proper fit of the 1/4" thick blade. In playing around with the sheath it seems like if you were to try to get it any further in the edge would cut the leather at the throat.

Nice knife. The stamp looks sick.

As for the Böker, what I meant is that the sheaths are usually cut symmetrically, but that of course can (and often does) change during wet forming. You'd probably still be able to reverse it like Jer did if you wet-reformed it, though of course there would be no reason for it .

 

[Arathol]

As for the Böker, what I meant is that the sheaths are usually cut symmetrically, but that of course can (and often does) change during wet forming. You'd probably still be able to reverse it like Jer did if you wet-reformed it, though of course there would be no reason for it .

Maybe not cut symmetrically. It looks a bit asymmetric. With a thick blade like this in a back sewn sheath, there is a way to make it fit by cutting the pattern a bit wider on one side.
The pattern would be more or less a V shape. If you bisect the V, thats your centerline where the seam will be. If you were to make one side just a little wider so the distance to the centerline is a bit more, when that edge is brought to the centerline the throat opening can be a bit wider on that side to allow for the thicker blade and the sheath will still appear symmetrical. Thats how this sheath appears to be made I think.

 

[Trubetzkoy]

Maybe not cut symmetrically. It looks a bit asymmetric. With a thick blade like this in a back sewn sheath, there is a way to make it fit by cutting the pattern a bit wider on one side.
The pattern would be more or less a V shape. If you bisect the V, thats your centerline where the seam will be. If you were to make one side just a little wider so the distance to the centerline is a bit more, when that edge is brought to the centerline the throat opening can be a bit wider on that side to allow for the thicker blade and the sheath will still appear symmetrical. Thats how this sheath appears to be made I think.

It's technically possible, I suppose, but as far as I know that's not how it's usually done, and it presents some drawbacks. By making one side wider, you'd effectively lengthen one (and only one) side of the seam, making stitch alignment trickier, particularly near the tip (where you'd have to increase the angle). With thick blades, unless they're extremely asymmetrical, normally it's better to make extra room just by extending both sides a bit. Then the fine-tuning can be done during wet forming, and not much of it should be needed really, since the top portion of the seam (which would likely be the most crooked with this approach) would be covered by the flap.

Still, I'm sure different artisans have slightly different methods. I'm only talking based on what I've seen and done myself. Soon, hopefully, I'll be making a sheath for the Kirschbaum puñal I've shown previously in this thread, which has a pretty hefty blade, so perhaps I'll have more insights to share then!

 

[kamagong]

As for being reversible, the large Boker above seems to not be reversible. It goes in fine as shown, but turn the blade around and it won't fit. It goes in most of the way but once it gets to within about 1" of the handle it won't go any further. The sheath is not quite symmetrical, its made so that when the seam is more or less centered its a couple mms larger on one side to allow a proper fit of the 1/4" thick blade. In playing around with the sheath it seems like if you were to try to get it any further in the edge would cut the leather at the throat.

Interesting, my 25 cm Arbolito came with a reversible sheath.



Of course it is only reversible in the beginning. Once it is worn and the leather starts conforming to the blade and your body, the sheath will dedicate itself to a specific orientation.

 

[Arathol]

Interesting, my 25 cm Arbolito came with a reversible sheath.

View attachment 3003138

Of course it is only reversible in the beginning. Once it is worn and the leather starts conforming to the blade and your body, the sheath will dedicate itself to a specific orientation.

This is what it looks like reversed. It doesn't go in straight and a full inch of sharp edge is left exposed. If I were to try working it in further it would start cutting the leather. As you can see the throat is pretty much made wider on one side. I could probably try to wet form and stretch it but I think in doing so the seam would be pulled to the side and the blade would be pretty sloppy in the sheath. Its not really made to be reversible.

 

[Trubetzkoy]

Maybe this will make it clearer, as this is a sheath that I made myself and there is no flap in the way anymore:

I made this sheath perfectly symmetrical. I even folded it right in the middle and brought the edges to the grinder to make sure they were perfectly aligned. This, in principle, I could've used it to store the knife in either direction. However, it doesn't look symmetrical anymore, since the leather stretched and shifted when shaped around the blade, which is 4-5mm thick at the base. As a consequence, now the knife doesn't quite go in in the opposite direction. Note also that this is pretty thick leather; therefore, we can expect a thinner sheath to shift even more despite having been cut symmetrically. All this to say: these sheaths are typically made for either direction, since it's actually easier that way; any (or at least most) asymmetries seen in the finished product are due to how the leather "sets" after shaped to the blade in a given direction. Of course, there are several factors at play here: leather thickness, blade thickness, moisture, etc.

 

[screened porch]

Funny how much better I kike old Rope Rings now that it doesn't look backwards in its sheath. Especially since if I were carrying it farther than my yard, I'd have it in a BPS dangler sheath.

I gave the sheath some shoe polish after its travails.

 

[Trubetzkoy]

The recent activity in the thread has motivated me to share one of my "Holy Grails," which I was able to procure recently after drooling over pictures of it for a couple years:

It's a late 19th- or early 20th-century larger verijero, most likely made by Honsberg & Spier (Remscheid, Germany), who had a branch in Asunción, Paraguay. Rather different from the usual Solingen knives from the period. I first found this very piece in a finalized Polish (!) listing from 2021, and then saw it on Ebay here in the US a few months ago. I made an offer to the seller, but it was rejected. Recently the knife was listed again, I made the same offer, and it was accepted, so there you go!

The blade is about 18.5 cm (7¼") long and 5mm (3⁄16") thick. The handle and scabbard are unmarked, but they look and weigh like solid silver. I see no visual evidence of plating, which you'd expect for a silver-plated knife this old, but who knows...

Edit: Upon careful examination, I was able to find a spot that seems to have been filed on the pommel. It reveals a warmer color that makes me think it's silver-plated nickel silver.

 

[herder]

The recent activity in the thread has motivated me to share one of my "Holy Grails," which I was able to procure recently after drooling over pictures of it for a couple years:

It's a late 19th- or early 20th-century larger verijero, most likely made by Honsberg & Spier (Remscheid, Germany), who had a branch in Asunción, Paraguay. Rather different from the usual Solingen knives from the period. I first found this very piece in a finalized Polish (!) listing from 2021, and then saw it on Ebay here in the US a few months ago. I made an offer to the seller, but it was rejected. Recently the knife was listed again, I made the same offer, and it was accepted, so there you go!

The blade is about 18.5 cm (7¼") long and 5mm (3⁄16") thick. The handle and scabbard are unmarked, but they look and weigh like solid silver. I see no visual evidence of plating, which you'd expect for a silver-plated knife this old, but who knows...

That is a fantastic example and patience seems to have paid off for you.
I tried sending you a direct message through the forum, but upon hitting the send button, it said a DM to you was not allowed.

 

[screened porch]

The blade is about 18.5 cm (7¼") long and 5mm (3⁄16") thick.

And another big, square ricasso!

My brother just gave me this Eberle, which he just found in in upper lower Michigan.
It illustrates the story of the black pastoralist who was beaten senseless by his employer, who left him on an anthill overnight. In the morning the kid was fit as a fiddle, hanging out with the Virgin Mary and a herd of horses, one of which he mounted and rode off.

It is quite a new knife, if "Do Rio Grande do passado para o Rio Grande do futuro" references the determination to rebuild and move forward after a flood in 2024, inspired by the resilience of the black pastoralist.

 

[Trubetzkoy]

That is a fantastic example and patience seems to have paid off for you.
I tried sending you a direct message through the forum, but upon hitting the send button, it said a DM to you was not allowed.

I took care of it and sent you a direct message already.

And another big, square ricasso!

Indeed! Functionally, I prefer a full flat grind from the bolster up. However, I aesthetically and from a collector's perspective, I dig these gaucho knives with a big ricasso, as they're quite rare and usually pretty high-end. Luckily, the ones I've been able to acquire don't have huge recurves from sharpening.

My brother just gave me this Eberle, which he just found in in upper lower Michigan.
It illustrates the story of the black pastoralist who was beaten senseless by his employer, who left him on an anthill overnight. In the morning the kid was fit as a fiddle, hanging out with the Virgin Mary and a herd of horses, one of which he mounted and rode off.

Very nice! Now you have quite the Eberle collection, I believe. Perhaps your next one will have a carbon steel blade? In the meantime, you should show a picture of all the garotinhos together.

 

[screened porch]

Indeed! Functionally, I prefer a full flat grind from the bolster up. However, I aesthetically and from a collector's perspective, I dig these gaucho knives with a big ricasso, as they're quite rare and usually pretty high-end. Luckily, the ones I've been able to acquire don't have huge recurves from sharpening.

Very nice! Now you have quite the Eberle collection, I believe. Perhaps your next one will have a carbon steel blade? In the meantime, you should show a picture of all the garotinhos together.

Yes, like kitchen knives with fat heels. It's not like those big ricassos would be much use for driving tent pegs.

I just gathered my Eberles, and there arent as many as I thought. I'd love to find a carbon one.

Newest on the left and oldest (to me) on the right. I bought the first one from the widow of a guy who knew he had a treasure. $30 instead of $160 or so. It had lain in that antique mall for years.
I realized it had to be a tourist knife, with those romantic scenes of gaucho life on it, and went to the bay looking for something less touristy.
The second from the right seems to show real wear, and has a bit of string around the shank of the belt hook, but the blade is shiny and new, with a "Gaucha" etch and a picture of a cowgirl. The second and third from the left are my favorites, with no tourist scenes.

And while we're in Brasil, Uncle Don's bandit faca de ponta and nasty deer foot stiletto.

And my sugar-mill engineer's gaucho-made rig- 1960s.

 

[Trubetzkoy]

Yes, like kitchen knives with fat heels. It's not like those big ricassos would be much use for driving tent pegs.

I just gathered my Eberles, and there arent as many as I thought. I'd love to find a carbon one.
View attachment 3005407
Newest on the left and oldest (to me) on the right. I bought the first one from the widow of a guy who knew he had a treasure. $30 instead of $160 or so. It had lain in that antique mall for years.
I realized it had to be a tourist knife, with those romantic scenes of gaucho life on it, and went to the bay looking for something less touristy.
The second from the right seems to show real wear, and has a bit of string around the shank of the belt hook, but the blade is shiny and new, with a "Gaucha" etch and a picture of a cowgirl. The second and third from the left are my favorites, with no tourist scenes.
View attachment 3005415
And while we're in Brasil, Uncle Don's bandit faca de ponta and nasty deer foot stiletto.
View attachment 3005417
And my sugar-mill engineer's gaucho-made rig- 1960s.

View attachment 3005418
View attachment 3005419

Very nice collection! Eberle has really grown on me as a brand. Some of their repousse patterns are really a thing of beauty. I hope I can also nail an older one at some point, because I suspect that even the one I have with the carbon steel blade s not that old -- 1950s or so.

 

[screened porch]

Very nice collection! Eberle has really grown on me as a brand. Some of their repousse patterns are really a thing of beauty. I hope I can also nail an older one at some point, because I suspect that even the one I have with the carbon steel blade s not that old -- 1950s or so.

Thank you. That deco one was a revelation to me. I thought they only came in touristy or leafy.

So Eberle founded Eberle in 1896; and Zivi-Hercules, founded 1931 (or so (memory)) acquired Eberle in 1985; and Zivi-Hercules-Eberle became Mundial in 2003.

I thought my Schmieden might be by Mundial, because it has marks resembling the suits of a deck of cards, but Schmieden is an Argentinian company. According to an e-store called Pieces of Argentina, Schmiedens are handcrafted in Tandil. Also according to Pieces of Argentina, that "Dagger" brand I mistrust is handmade in Tandil, and more expensively than the Schmiedens.

 

[Trubetzkoy]

I thought my Schmieden might be by Mundial, because it has marks resembling the suits of a deck of cards, but Schmieden is an Argentinian company. According to an e-store called Pieces of Argentina, Schmiedens are handcrafted in Tandil. Also according to Pieces of Argentina, that "Dagger" brand I mistrust is handmade in Tandil, and more expensively than the Schmiedens.

I do seem to remember an old FB discussion (I'm not on that platform anymore, but there's a lot of groups devoted to questions about authenticity and provenance of this type of knife) mentioning a likely Chinese origin. Handsome knife nonetheless, regardless of where it was made. If the steel is good, it's definitely a win-win, since my impression is that you bought it as a user rather than as a collector's piece.