Gaucho knives and cuchillos criollos of South America

Trubetzkoy said:
I do seem to remember an old FB discussion (I'm not on that platform anymore, but there's a lot of groups devoted to questions about authenticity and provenance of this type of knife) mentioning a likely Chinese origin. Handsome knife nonetheless, regardless of where it was made. If the steel is good, it's definitely a win-win, since my impression is that you bought it as a user rather than as a collector's piece.
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Yup. I think it might be handcrafted in Tandil using Chinese blades. But if it's all Chinese, it's still fine, as you say. The Chinese have been making good knives for a long time.
 
Trubetzkoy said:
Speaking of securely peened tangs, check this one out -- it looks like it was peened with Thor's hammer:

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It's the tang of a larger antique verijero I've shown previously in this thread, which I suspected to be a Scholberg piece:

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As it turns out, my suspicions were correct, as I recently found this Uruguayan Scholberg online with exactly the same chiseled motifs on the sheath, but with a different hook:

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Hello, good evening. The knife you are showing has alpacca fittings. It may or may not be a Scholberg, and looking by the "boton" and "gavilan" (ricasso and bolster) it does not look like a Scholberg. Please remember that many gaucho knives came with similar fittings, as those were mostly made by two or three different factories in Europe (Linder Deutschland was one of them) for a plethora of importers. If I may speak frankly to you, your blade looks more alike with old Johann Bernhardt Hasenclever blades (also known as Marca Toro/Touro) than Scholbergs. Also, please note, the picture you're using to compare with your knife has a handle that isn't matching the sheath, you can see that by the motifs on the frieze (you can compare the frieze at the start of the sheath with the intermission friezes on the handle).
 
screened porch said:
Yup. I think it might be handcrafted in Tandil using Chinese blades. But if it's all Chinese, it's still fine, as you say. The Chinese have been making good knives for a long time.
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I haven't heard that Tandil knifemakers are bringing in steel from China. I believe the steel is still produced locally, but the blades are very low quality nowadays (if I may speak frankly). Back in the day, Tandil knifemakers used to make decent stuff, like Simbra, La Movediza and Revancha. Even some Plateria Fierro were very good. After the 1970s, the industry in Tandil became weaker and weaker in terms of quality. Today, they mass produce blades with terrible quality fittings. Hope that helps (not trying to diss anyone's work, just speaking the truth and what is being said in collectors' circles around South America).
 
Trubetzkoy said:
Another interesting cuchilla from a Facebook listing, with a fancier touch:

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Not sure if everything is original, but both the handle (marked "800") and the sheath (marked "11" matching the length of the blade in inches) appear old and European-made.
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Regarding this knife, we call this model "Sabatiers" in South America, even if they were not made in France or by Sabatier for that matter. Handle is not the standard that would have come with this model, as the standard is ebon, bone or other woods. Handle was made to order by a goldsmith (we call them "prateiros" or "plateros").
 
Trubetzkoy said:
I do seem to remember an old FB discussion (I'm not on that platform anymore, but there's a lot of groups devoted to questions about authenticity and provenance of this type of knife) mentioning a likely Chinese origin. Handsome knife nonetheless, regardless of where it was made. If the steel is good, it's definitely a win-win, since my impression is that you bought it as a user rather than as a collector's piece.
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screened porch said:
And another big, square ricasso!

My brother just gave me this Eberle, which he just found in in upper lower Michigan.
It illustrates the story of the black pastoralist who was beaten senseless by his employer, who left him on an anthill overnight. In the morning the kid was fit as a fiddle, hanging out with the Virgin Mary and a herd of horses, one of which he mounted and rode off.

It is quite a new knife, if "Do Rio Grande do passado para o Rio Grande do futuro" references the determination to rebuild and move forward after a flood in 2024, inspired by the resilience of the black pastoralist.
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Hi, this knife is from the late 1960s (not 2024). It is a reference to a folk tale "Legend of the Black Shepherd". The inscription "From Today's Rio Grande do Sul to Future's Rio Grande do Sul" was a patriotic slogan during Brazil's Military Regime. Eberle played a pivotal role for many years, as it was the biggest privately owned metalware factory in the country. This knife's model was patented in 1966, but only came in production during late 1967. They stopped producing it in the late 1970s, when Eberle started dwindling in quality. Hope that helps!
 
screened porch said:
Thank you. That deco one was a revelation to me. I thought they only came in touristy or leafy.

So Eberle founded Eberle in 1896; and Zivi-Hercules, founded 1931 (or so (memory)) acquired Eberle in 1985; and Zivi-Hercules-Eberle became Mundial in 2003.

I thought my Schmieden might be by Mundial, because it has marks resembling the suits of a deck of cards, but Schmieden is an Argentinian company. According to an e-store called Pieces of Argentina, Schmiedens are handcrafted in Tandil. Also according to Pieces of Argentina, that "Dagger" brand I mistrust is handmade in Tandil, and more expensively than the Schmiedens.
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Schmieden is a new brand in Argentina. It entered the market around 2015, if I'm not mistaken. It is not owned by Mundial. It is most likely chinese steel. It is treated as a tourist knife in Argentina and sold in touristic places such as the Recoleta neighborhood. They are quite pretty, though.
 
screened porch said:
Yes, like kitchen knives with fat heels. It's not like those big ricassos would be much use for driving tent pegs.

I just gathered my Eberles, and there arent as many as I thought. I'd love to find a carbon one.
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Newest on the left and oldest (to me) on the right. I bought the first one from the widow of a guy who knew he had a treasure. $30 instead of $160 or so. It had lain in that antique mall for years.
I realized it had to be a tourist knife, with those romantic scenes of gaucho life on it, and went to the bay looking for something less touristy.
The second from the right seems to show real wear, and has a bit of string around the shank of the belt hook, but the blade is shiny and new, with a "Gaucha" etch and a picture of a cowgirl. The second and third from the left are my favorites, with no tourist scenes.
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And while we're in Brasil, Uncle Don's bandit faca de ponta and nasty deer foot stiletto.
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And my sugar-mill engineer's gaucho-made rig- 1960s.

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The last knife you showed, with the sharpening steel, is Uruguayan. Most likely produced by the Lorenzi factory, also known as Cuchillos del Uruguay. A polite guess would situate it between the 1980s and early 1990s. Hope that helps.
 
Trubetzkoy said:
Piteira (the continuation of Eberle, whose bugle trademark was precisely called piteira) still sells this pattern, but with another handle (which I believe to be Eberle's first handle pattern and I happen to like even more): https://www.piteira1908.com.br/loja/faca-2-cachorros-prateada-com-bainha/

I forgot to mention, mine came with a presentation box marked "Masson":

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Edit: I also recommend checking out this blogspot for more interesting information about Eberle and pictures of vintage/antique examples: https://facasriograndenses.blogspot.com/2013/04/abramo-eberle-cia.html?q=eberle
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Casa Masson is a famed Jewelry business in Porto Alegre, Brazil. Knife was produced in Caxias do Sul, though. It's probably from the late 1950s.
 
Trubetzkoy said:
Here are a couple more pics of my carbon steel Eberle:

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Recently I saw one with a long (8" or 9") Georgian Rodgers Blade on Ebay, etched "Abramo Eberle, Caxias" on the other side. It sold for $500
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Fun fact: Eberle did not produce most of its blades. Carbon steel blades used to come mainly from Germany or England (the ones marked Joseph Rodgers, for example). However, some rare blades would also come marked by Gebruder Weyersberg of Solingen. Some table knives would be marked by either Nirosta Gottlieb Hammesfahr of Solingen, or Richard Herder from Solingen. After Eberle switched to Inox, they had the blades produced in a variety of places, including but not limited to Japan. A minority of the inox blades were produced in Brazil. Cheers.
 
Trubetzkoy said:
That actually seems pretty plausible. That would explain the lack of stamp, too.


For sure, regular butcher and chef knives were and still are common in South America -- especially rural areas -- as general-use tools. Some of them have specifically South American stamps, too. Here's a Guyot cuchilla imported by E. Montagnac from Buenos Aires, sold a few years ago by a fella called Jair Caetano on Facebook:

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I wouldn't say fancy knives were rare at all though, given how many old pieces one sees floating around. It's just that the fancier knives were not really for the regular gaucho, but for more aristocratic, or even middle-class, types.


I think it was common with butchering-types of knives, especially if done on only one side of the blade. I've seen it on several old butcher and chef knives I've owned, American, British, etc., all with rather thin blades.
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Fun fact: Guyot would also produce blades for Scholberg. Also, their cousin, Henri Ducret-Guyot, produced a good amount of the blades that came to Brazil and Uruguay between 1918 and 1937 for Scholberg.
 
Thanks for chiming in, MichelGuendler MichelGuendler . Lots of interesting stuff to touch on based on your responses. I'll follow up on a few:
1) Thanks on the info on Masson. I was really curious about that.
2) About Eberle blades, I knew that the early ones were produced in Europe, but my understanding was that production shifted mainly to Brazil around the mid1900s. If I recall correctly, the first Brazilian forge dates back to the 30s or even 20s... I do recall seeing some marked "Japan" though!
3) About Sabatiers, people often call them that here in the US too. That said, I've seen most Argentinians generically call them cuchillas, consistently with Domenech's and other's terminology.
4) As for the unmarked verijero of mine that I speculated could be a Scholberg, you're right to prompt me to be cautious. But, by the same token, we must remember this is not an exact science. Mismatched handles and scabbards are often seen in period pieces -- sometimes pieces that never left Europe and thus are unlikely to have been tinkered with. Moreover, I've seen several properly marked Scholberg knives with very similar blade shapes to mine, including the "Spanish notch" style and the bolster with the round extended section. We can only speculate, though!
Cheers!
 
Trubetzkoy said:
Thanks for chiming in, MichelGuendler MichelGuendler . Lots of interesting stuff to touch on based on your responses. I'll follow up on a few:
1) Thanks on the info on Masson. I was really curious about that.
2) About Eberle blades, I knew that the early ones were produced in Europe, but my understanding was that production shifted mainly to Brazil around the mid1900s. If I recall correctly, the first Brazilian forge dates back to the 30s or even 20s... I do recall seeing some marked "Japan" though!
3) About Sabatiers, people often call them that here in the US too. That said, I've seen most Argentinians generically call them cuchillas, consistently with Domenech's and other's terminology.
4) As for the unmarked verijero of mine that I speculated could be a Scholberg, you're right to prompt me to be cautious. But, by the same token, we must remember this is not an exact science. Mismatched handles and scabbards are often seen in period pieces -- sometimes pieces that never left Europe and thus are unlikely to have been tinkered with. Moreover, I've seen several properly marked Scholberg knives with very similar blade shapes to mine, including the "Spanish notch" style and the bolster with the round extended section. We can only speculate, though!
Cheers!
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Hi, I'll find you a poster from Casa Masson that I have stored someplace.
For cuchilla terminology, yes, it is used, although usually cuchilla carneadera (the full name) refers to non full tang blades.
As for your knife, I had a Toro that was EXACTLY like yours. Toros are rarer than Scholbergs. Scholberg is the most well regarded brand of gaucho knives of all time, but they are not the rarest by far. I will find pictures of my Toro and send them to you. As a fun fact, it is very plausible that your knife was imported to PELOTAS, Rio Grande do Sul State, by Germano Berg & Sucessores, as they were the representatives of Johann Bernhardt Hasenclever, the "Marca Toro"
 
MichelGuendler said:
Hi, I'll find you a poster from Casa Masson that I have stored someplace.
For cuchilla terminology, yes, it is used, although usually cuchilla carneadera (the full name) refers to non full tang blades.
As for your knife, I had a Toro that was EXACTLY like yours. Toros are rarer than Scholbergs. Scholberg is the most well regarded brand of gaucho knives of all time, but they are not the rarest by far. I will find pictures of my Toro and send them to you. As a fun fact, it is very plausible that your knife was imported to PELOTAS, Rio Grande do Sul State, by Germano Berg & Sucessores, as they were the representatives of Johann Bernhardt Hasenclever, the "Marca Toro"
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That would be sweet, looking forward to it! Thanks for the info, too.
 
Arathol said:
Not sure what to make of this one.....The knife is made by Industrias Australes SA in Trelew Argentina

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Interesting piece. I had never seen a "cuchilla" with a leather-wrapped handle. I'd assume underneath are the original wooden scales.
 
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