GEC and Do You Really Like Them?

[akadave2]

I agree--the idea of a subforum would kill the discussion and really invites it to become a cult of fanboys. I like having a forum dedicated to the traditionals and it is dominated by the knives that dominate that particular market.

Not saying I want it...just to satisfy the naysayers...Im all good..

 

[pertinux]

I have for sometime privately rallied against the proliferation of GEC threads in the Traditional Forum.... I have also noticed another proliferation of threads concerning GEC made knives. This is occurring in the Traditional's For Sale Forum. Are all of these GEC knives being offered for sale due to their proliferation in the marketplace or because they have manufacturing flaws?

... Correct, I am a bit baffled and not exactly happy, with the proliferation of GEC threads in the Traditional Forum. I am of the belief that there are many other topics and makers we could be discussing that would enrich all of us.... Granted, they make an acceptable product for many, but being portrayed as the end-all-be-all, hardly.

I cannot speak directly to the proliferation of GEC knives available in the Exchange (having not sold any myself), but the reasons others have presented make sense to me.

I also have little I can add to what others have said regarding the proliferation of GEC threads. The following especially resonate with my own experience and outlook:

I love GEC for several reasons. I love the variety of both patterns and handle material. I love the quality. I love the people at the company.

I have no special allegiance to GEC, although I do own several of their knives. My particular interest/hobby is finding new and different knives, whether that be make, model, design or handle material. I love 1095 so that bodes well for GEC, but more than anything, my interest in GEC is fueled by the fact that they routinely come out with new/different variations that continue to peak my interest. It's possible that I'm wrong, but in my opinion, GEC simply seems more active than other production manufacturers when it comes to releasing new knives and different variations of their knives. There are lots of other very good makers that I'm interested in, but GEC's variety, overall quality, and attainable price points keep me interested in their products as well.

... I want to create heirlooms just like my most prized possessions from my grandfather are. Call me a romantic, but I want to use the heck out of a knife and then be able to pass it on to the next generation knowing that it will last their life as well. For me the quality, and general affordability/availability of GEC makes them instant contenders.

With GEC there is almost always something to look forward to, this is unusual in this day & age for Traditional knives....

I do understand that some people could get a dose of GEC fatigue, very reasonable. But GEC put out a product that stirs people and this will generate discussion naturally enough. I would not like to see a forum just for GEC as this can hinder objective discussion of the knives and can promote an atmosphere of clanishness in some cases.

So-- given the evident popularity of GEC knives and goings-on (no matter that this sometimes baffles those who don't prefer them to others), the need for responsible posting (and especially responsible thread-starting) becomes more noticeable, or at least, heightened-- as it would be with any currently popular brand or phenomenon. I am thankful for Frank and Gary's guidelines, as Frank expressed earlier in this thread:

Perhaps I can speak from a slightly different perspective.

Gary and I have discussed the proliferation of GEC threads. Our opinion is that, as long as the topic is within the Traditional Forum guidelines, the BF membership decides what they want to talk about. If there are a bunch of threads about GEC knives and there are a bunch of posts in the threads, well then apparently GEC is what folks want to talk about. The only limitation is that threads which are plainly about another brand not be hijacked to talk about GEC. In such a thread, we will attempt an on-course correction.

Which leads me to a favorite post in this thread, with my own bold added for emphasis:

Improve the search function maybe - OK.
Consolidate some threads - possibly.
But another internet Forum separated to manufacturers subforums, and it really killed a lot of enthusiasm IMO. You have to go to ten places to have a discussion.
I think there are a lot of new people here who are asking old questions over and over, and with all respect to new people, they should search, hunt and lurk for answers. Sometimes someone will remember where the answer is, and link to it. But think twice before you start a thread that says "Which is Better - GEC or Queen?" Trying a little harder to be interesting is the key.
Starting a thread carries a responsibility.

The "search" functions of this forum can be frustrating, thwarting even those who remember having seen or read very specific threads or posts(!). However, a modicum of care-- and especially reading, reading, reading before starting threads-- can go a long way. So can subscribing to and/or bookmarking threads one would like to return to later.

While an abundance of GEC threads in and of itself doesn't bother me, sloppiness (in repetition and/or lack of content) in new threads does, regardless of company or subject matter. I've also been much more aware that others are bothered by GEC threads out-of-hand (due the sheer numbers and perhaps some bafflement) since reading some of your and others' earlier posted thoughts on the matter.

As a point of personal reference (for those who may have noted that I do enjoy my GEC knives ), since I first registered on Bladeforums in 2/2012 I have started 22 threads here in Traditional. Of those 22, only 8 are GEC-specific; of those 8, four would now neatly fit into the "Let's Talk GEC" thread I've linked below, two are pattern-specific, one was to give away a GEC knife, and the last was to reboot a pattern-specific thread after an existing thread was closed.

It can be difficult to identify an existing, pertinent thread when knives can be identified by pattern number, name, and/or colloquialism (there are now three "Workhorses," as just one example, and look what's about to happen with the #48s!), but if we all work to make each thread count (and understand that the Mods are working towards the same end, and may move new threads accordingly), perhaps there can be better streamlining of on-going content.

Two non-pattern-specific GEC threads I've already found helpful towards that end:
Let's Talk GEC!
Great Eastern Cutlery (GEC) group shots / photo requests

There will likely still be a proliferation of new threads, but there are new patterns (some wholly new) being released almost weekly, knives and discussions that will not fit neatly into previous threads, and/or which certainly warrant their own. So be it.

Finally, in regards to the question posed by the title of this thread, GEC and Do You Really Like Them, I present my first-ever GEC-specific post in this forum (meaning, anywhere):

...the few GECs I've seen in person have left me surprisingly cold. I had no idea they were so Round-- like little hot dogs. Okay, not that bad, but also not appealing to me. Perhaps I have not yet seen The One for me, but for now I will continue to appreciate them from afar.

Ha, ha. Cough.



Then came the White Owl, then I ran head-first into the WLST®s (Weird Little Stubby Things, a/ka/, #25s), and then.... Well, here I be.

Yes, Brad. I really, really like my GECs, and love looking at and talking about others', including patterns I don't prefer myself. I also thoroughly enjoy my Case knives, and my Bokers, and am over the moon with the Russell from Elliott and the Schrade Walden courtesy of Owen, and the sleek Gerber Silver Knight that Ed so graciously sent my way last Christmas-time. But what more to say about them...? Not that I will be silent, as occasion arises.

I don't consider GEC knives the be-all, end-all, but I'm thrilled that they are being produced and are accessible to me and to others today, and that we can share our enjoyment of them together.

~ P.

 

[Modoc ED]

A Manufactures Forum could be asked for by GEC and they would then have to appoint someone from GEC to be the moderator for it. However, that would not prevent someone from asking a GEC question or posting a picture or anything else GEC in the Traditional Forum just as Buck currently has their Manufactures Forum yet people post about Buck's traditional style knives in the Traditional Forum. Sooooooo, in the end, a separate GEC Manufactures Forum would solve nothing as far as the Traditional Forum goes.

 

[RobbW]

When is the Golden Era of traditional American cutlery manufacturing? My answer is right now! We've never had so many talented custom makers. That market seems to be growing if wait times are any gauge. We have quality mass-produced knives at a lower price point with Buck and Case and most of them are really good. Buck's heat treat is fantastic, at any price. Case offers scores of traditional patterns. We have more upscale knives with CSC and Queen. They offer D2 and upgraded stainless offerings. Queen seems to be getting better F&F with the Daniel's family running things. My vote for the top of the US production market is GEC. I have nearly ten. The offerings the first years were bulky and boxy. I have a stag 73 linerlock that is really well made and with good lockup. I like it but don't use it much because of the size. For me, the offerings keep getting better and better now that so many of their slipjoints have gone on a diet and slimmed down. I love my Pemberton, Conductor and Boy's Knife. All give me what I need with no extra bulk. I'd also consider the Tom's Choice and Charlow, just because GEC is making smaller, slimmer knives which I am more likely to carry. I have most of their Forum knives as well.

GEC has the steel and heat treat down. Add to that innovative design that takes a chapter from history but adds it's own design flair. Plus, they keep innovating and bringing out new designs. No wonder they get talked about. Queen & CSC would get more Forum recognition if they brought out new designs. Case gets good recognition for the TB collaboration knives and the TB designed knives like the Swayback. They would get more talk if they brought out more designs in better heat-treated steel rather than just juggling different handle materials.

Overall, we really are lucky to have so many great, quality offerings available to us. Quality innovation gets talked about.

 

[silenthunterstudios]

We are truly lucky to have these companies. Custom and production choices.

 

[cards94]

i like gec but i do alot of window shopping and not much buying in order to control my financial flow and not get out of hand. i don't think i'll ever own more than 7-10 knives, just because i don't like alot of anything. whatever i buy i use, and whatever doesn't get used will be sold, given away, or made into a tackle box knife or garage knife.

 

[waynorth]

Brad, you have elicited some amazing, thoughtful responses here! Nice going!!
It has been like stepping back and taking a look at what we are doing, and it was/is indeed timely.
I have a hope that this will bring about more high quality threads, no matter what the subjects happen to be!!
I am not trying to bring this to a close, just remarking on how glad I am it is happening!

 

[black mamba]

Right on, Charlie. I think 7 pages in 24 hours speaks for itself.

 

[okbohn]

I have thought a lot about this thread, actually.

I think worrying about too many topics about GEC is a little like saying, "No one ever goes to that restaurant any more because there is always a long wait."

 

[timberweasel]

Do I really like GEC? Yup, sure do. But that's not why I come here. It's about the people behind the knives that makes this place great, and I thank each and every member for taking the time to post their experiences, photos and stories. Nice to connect with fellow enthusiasts, because if it wasn't for them, I would never have even heard of many, many great manufacturers (past and present.) :thumbup::thumbup:

I'd bet money that most of the threads that inspired me when I was new were completely old, tired, rehashed topics that made Forum veterans roll their eyes...

As for the Sales Forums, well, popular production knives are always prolific, regardless of genre.

Anyway, just my 2¢. Cheers!

-Brett

 

[Modoc ED]

I have thought a lot about this thread, actually.

I think worrying about too many topics about GEC is a little like saying, "No one ever goes to that restaurant any more because there is always a long wait."

I'm not sure I follow your meaning exactly Derrick but I'll say this:

It's not threads about GEC knives per se but the repetition of them - same subject stated in three or four threads on the same page. The GEC #15 Boys Knife is an example. Just yesterday or the day before we had a thread about the GEC #15 Boys Knife wanting pictures and facts about the knife. Lo and behold, the same day another thread pops up asking for recommendations for the GEC #15 Boys Knife from soneone else asking for recommendations and away we went again repeating much of the information that was in the first thread. A couple of times these threads were one above the other on page 1 of the forum. Had thread poster #2 looked over the front page or done a search for the #15 Boys Knife, there would have been no need for the second thread.

However; it has to be taken into account that if a paying member of Blade Forums starts a second thread even though he or she knows another thread on the same subject is up they have every right because one of the reasons they are paying is to be able to start their own threads. Never the less, greater use of the search function would be nice sometimes.

Now you can slap me silly if you want and that's ok but I gotta say that a dealer that sells GEC knives who says (more or less) that there can't be too many GEC threads on a forum has to taken with a grain of salt. I know you're a GEC dealer and I know I'm talking about GEC dealers in this paragraph but I'm not singling you out - I'm only trying to make a general point. I think you've made some good points throughout this thread.

 

[okbohn]

Ed,

My point doesn't actually have anything to do with GEC. (or selling them either )

My point is basically a market idea. My mom used to say that phrase, "No one goes to that restaurant because there is too much of a wait." It made me laugh because the whole reason there is a line is that the restaurant is very popular.

GEC has a lot of threads because their knives are very popular. People like to talk about what they have in their hands. The interest level in the forum is based on people talking about what is exciting to them. When we think, "People are talking too much about it." we are saying the same thing my mom used to say.

No slapping silly here.

 

[ptradeco]

Charlie, Jeff, Ed, Sarah and to everyone who have so thoughtfully and intelligently contributed to this thread I give you a heartfelt Thank You. I had no idea that the responses would come as they have. These are the kinds of discussions that got me interested in the BF Tradionals Forum originally.

Thanks All!!!

 

[Modoc ED]

Thanks for your remarks Derrick. I get what you were getting at better now.

 

[zippofan]

So... what other companies should I look for to match or beat GEC's quality, value,and selection? I've got a couple now and they're great. I just don't want to saturate my collection with a single company. The few Case and Queen knives I've seen seem to be a step down. Unless you're going to jump up to customs, where else can we go for premium slipjoints?

Schatt & Morgan:

I like stainless steel though

As for the subforums, we get those requests for different brands on the watch forum all the time. It has a tendency to subdivide the audience and water down the content. I moderate an affordable watches forum and a Hamilton brand subforum. The Hamilton forum gets a fraction of the traffic, and took all those collectors out of the affordables forum to an extent. We had a Timex forum and had to close it due to lack of traffic. Timex!

The watch forums have the "flavor of the month" or year. Sometimes the same brand (Seiko, Citizen, Vostok, Casio etc.) or even model in ten active threads, IMO it is just an Internet forum phenomenon. It doesn't help that V-Bulletin search isn't that great too. OK, I'll stop with the watches now

Z

 

[rockgolfer]

Baffled? well, I don't know of too many other startup companies based in the U.S.A. that are producing a good quality, traditional knife with hands on operations and traditional materials and craftsmanship as of late.



Perhaps there are other makers and topics that could be discussed, and yes, we can and do enjoy learning by reading and seeing photo's about knives from other makers, present, and past, but as for the really old stuff, it is few and far between that any of us will ever even be able to see or touch even a single example, so where are these discussions going to come from? I love it when folks share the rare old beauties on the forum here. As for the statements about bootlegging and inaccuracy, these words seem to be stemming from emotion, and on the other side of the emotion coin it may be put as paying homage to traditional patterns. Admittedly there is a certain shtick to GECs design and marketing, and it does seem to work.
And quite frankly, after watching Camillus and Schrade bite the dust, I am quite proud and happy to carry, and use, and talk about GEC's until the cows come home.

:thumbup:

 

[Lastmohecken]

Quality and integrity. I'm partial to them because they're made in Pennsylvania, very near where my parents grew up and where my sense of home is. I've been to visit the company twice now, not a big deal but I drive from Texas to do so. I also camp for a week in the forest- a closer place to heaven you won't find... After seeing so many American companies close or move overseas, it's refreshing and hopeful to see a small start-up like Great Eastern do something right. They make a solid product with little compromise.

and since no GEC thread is complete without pics:

I have this very same knife on order from Knivesshipfree.com, Same handles and everything. How well do you like yours, compared to other styles?

 

[Woodrow F Call]

I think Ed's point is that we tend yo get sn influx of people who come in and start a new GEC thread on every GEC knife they purchase or buy instead of posting in one of the existing threads where it would fit.

I'm new and the concept was different to me.

 

[midnight flyer]

I agree--the idea of a subforum would kill the discussion and really invites it to become a cult of fanboys. I like having a forum dedicated to the traditionals and it is dominated by the knives that dominate that particular market.

After reading for a couple of years, I joined BF because of one particular knife brand. They had activated their own sub forum here and they had the most enthusiastic fan base you can imagine. After a while, it became a contest of who owned the most, who owned the most expensive models, and who was most "in the know" of company goings on. They even formed their own Mafia, mostly as a joke, but some took its membership pretty seriously.

The subforum in question became less and less tolerant of just about everything that didn't praise the brand, and finally, if I recall correctly, Spark shut them down. I was really disappointed as I love that brand for work knives and I just skipped the guys I knew not to read, and read the posts by the guys I liked and respected. Lots of hard feelings ensued.

Skip forward a few years, and the brand is back with its own dedicated forum. Went really smoothly for a few months... things were great. Surely, a different feel and flavor than here on the traditional sub, but still nice. Someway, they began to get off track. Same stuff, different day. An Order of rank was established within the subforum that was based on number of posts within the subforum, number of the brand knives, length of membership, and a few other things. So a hierarchy was established, all the while being denied as such by the organizers.

When they were just starting to vet and enroll members, I posted there that I didn't think it would last for all kinds of reasons. I was told anything from "who asked you in" to "join us and let us know if you think we are off track", mostly off group. But the moderator of the time posted something along the lines of "obviously you have had some bad experiences in the past so maybe this isn't the group for you." Indeed, history is our best teacher.

I quit reading the group when they decided to vet the folks that posted their to see if they were worthy of a rank in the Order. However, reading off and on here and there, including commentary in Whine and Cheese, it seems that the folks that were in the subforum were back at their bad ways of being offensive, demanding, intolerant and rude.

So once again, that subforum has been shut down, this time by the manufacturer.

If this subforum gets fragmented into fanboi tribute sub-subforum, then it will hurt the brand and the folks that are interested in it. I don't know how much any of the guys that frequent the traditional corner of this site go elsewhere, but this is the most mild mannered, easy going, tolerant group of helpful guys around. There are some sharp tongued fellas on occasion, but then we probably all are from time to time.

Sure, there are some huge fans of GEC. When those threads come up (doubtless, there will be another hundred folks that post pictures of their Boy's knife) just chuckle and move on. How many types of scales can go on the new "Grandpa's Shop Knife" model 101 in limited release? No doubt we will see all variants many, many times.

But I also think this; if this was the 70s, we would be talking in the same glowing terms about CASE. Made in America, good steel, reliable, and the fit and finish was excellent. Back in those days, not a sole I knew carried Schrade as they didn't like the plastic (Delrin) handles. We carried on about bone, ebony, and stag, and wouldn't touch plastic. Colonial was sold in the nickel and dime along with Imperial and Sabre. All were considered the bottom of the bucket to me and mine. Around here was CASE as a mainstay (maybe a good Boker) or Buck if you were on a budget, and that was that.

So if this is GEC's day, so be it.

Would be nice if all the fans of certain models would be considerate enough to post to the many existing threads about the models they gush about. But if they are considerate enough to put the details in their header, those threads are easy enough to skip. Just think how luck we are if all we have to worry about is too many GEC threads at once...

I think dismantling the group on any respect is not a good idea as we have seen here on BF. The folks that anxiously showed of their collections, got vetted and joined their own subforum (some as a second go around) now have nowhere special to display their credentials as there dedicated forum not only ticked off and turned off its own members before its demise, but it is now gone completely, living only in the archives.

Hate to see anything like that happen here.

Robert

 

[kdstrick]

GEC has "it" right now. Frankly, they deserve a lot of credit for the resurgence in interest in 'traditional' knives. It seems the market for such knives has expanded due to their efforts. The popularity of GEC on this forum is evidence of this phenomenon.

But lets all stop and look at the big picture here. From a purely economic standpoint it stands to reason that competitors will see this market expansion and attempt to gain a share of it.

This may be a wonderful thing for enthusiasts of 'traditional' knives since competition tends to improve products and provide pressure manufactures to price their goods as competitively as possible in order to attract sales.

From a knife fan like myself, that means that we should soon have much more to talk about. Perhaps Queen under new ownership, will be the brand that consumes our conversation in the future. Maybe someone else reads this thread and decides to begin making their own knives. Who knows.

But the fact that we are all having this discussion about one brand dominating the market may be a very good thing. The future looks much brighter for 'traditional' knives with GEC in the picture than it did before it existed. For that, I am thankful.