GEC elephant ivory.

As elephants are currrently over-populating much of their habitat, I don't see much of a problem with legally harvested ivory, whether current or pre-ban.
Elephants seem to be a hot button topic, but if they are killed legally, then they benefit both other elephants and the natives in the area they are killed.
Habitat is being destroyed at an alarming rate, so fewer elephants actually benefits the elephants themselves, and the natives need the meat. We benefit by the beauty of the ivory.

All this being said, Roland is right-- the best ivory is not pure white. The darker, yellow-amber material with obvious grain is the prettiest and the most desireable.
 
I wasn't suggesting for one second that GEC would deal with dodgy poached ivory-please don't think that!
Great info Waynorth-wow over 100 yo. thats something .I'm salivating big time.
 
black mamba said:
Habitat is being destroyed at an alarming rate, so fewer elephants actually benefits the elephants themselves, and the natives need the meat. We benefit by the beauty of the ivory.
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I am not sure I see the logic here....
I mean, i understand your point about over-population of an area, but to imply that culling a herd is beneficial seems rather short-sighted.

of course, please dont take this as a personal attack, cause its not, just think this reasoning is a pretty slippery slope is all
 
Charlie, that's amazing !! 100 year old tusks should have some primo ivory in it. I wonder if how to cut it best is an all but lost art ? If well cut, some of these GEC knives could have superb handle scales.
roland
 
Nice ivory, Roland!

Only a small percentage can be outer or bark. Some locations have interesting grain, but the large majority is quite white, until it oxidizes, and is handled.
It is amazing how dark it gets over time. This is the outer stuff from the aforementioned tooth.;
I whale 1.jpgI whale 2.jpgI whale 3.jpg
 
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Rsmith_77
Just imaging if there where a total ban on hunting white tail deer in Mississippi and a ban on using their meat, hides, or antlers. Soon you would not be able to drive at night, farmers couldn't grow crops, and the deer would all be in a weakend state due to malneutrition and loaded with diseases. Hogs have caused so much damage to the enviroment that most states have now taken them off the game animal list and placed them in the neusance animal list.

It is my understanding that the elephant populations are exploding. They are destroying their habitat due to over population with few checks on them. Then they move into villages and destroy the years crops and food supply of that village for a whole season. I have also read how there are warehouses full of ivory in Africa that, if it could be sold, could supply much needed income for native peoples, as well as money for better management of their herds. This ivory comes from animals that have been culled from herds, some that has been confiscated from poachers, and scavanged from natural deaths. The African nations that have possesion of this ivory want to sell it and I think it's high time to start using this natural resource. This ivory is langushing in warehouses due to antiquated laws. Laws that where put in place to help endangered herds to be brought back to healthy levels. They have succeded splendedly, just as the deer programs here in the US.

That my friend is the thinking on this.:) It's about management!

Great looking knives I must say!
BTW I can go a few blocks from here and see a pair of tusk on display. This elephant was taken by Turner Kirkland (founder of Dixie Gunworks) some time in the early 70s with a 4 gague black powder rifle (that can also be seen there).
 
Oh I understand your point about culling populations and overcrowding...
i guess its a combination of growing up hearing just HOW endangered elephants are/were

and the thought that we need to cull the population due to mans destruction of their habitat necessitating the need to cull the herd

i dunno, maybe it was an emotional response
 
waynorth said:
The tusk that GEC is using was from an estate, and was "collected" before WWI. I used to own it.
I would never use modern ivory, nor would GEC. It is better as knife handles than as some trophy celebrating the killing of elephants. It was in fact a beautiful tusk, but I just couldn't mount it for display. On the other hand, I see it as no different than wearing leather shoes, to use it to handle a knife, given the elephant has gone to Elephant heaven almost 100 years ago.
The carbon footprint of that tusk is far, far less than modern plastic imitation handles, BTW!
And it does age nicely, albeit slowly.
Click to expand...

Hey...this Charlie fella gets around a bit, I have seen him pop up now and then in the Traditionals...now hes sneaked into GEC :eek:,anyone know who this guy is? :D
 
:confused:Being somewhat of an environmentalist/naturalist, I have a hard time dealing with my desire for natural materials. It's a struggle I sway back and forth on even on an hourly basis. Before starting reading this thread I would have said "No way!" to elephant Ivory, then after seeing some pics, and reading some posts, I've moved back to "Wow, this stuff is amazing!" And reading some more, I'm leaning back to a more conservative view. I think the only way I can be completely comfortable with the idea of ivory is to stick with Mammoth or Mastadon, and then the guilt is non-existant.

It's hard being a Republican Environmentalist, who loves the idea of the hunt, and is a tree-hugger to boot.:confused: Would that be a Conservationist?
 
On a serious note, I too once thought NO WAY!, I dont hunt because I just feel too much for the animal, but a lot of my mates are hunters, and I dont bag hunting ( as long as its done in a non-slaughter by numbers way ),. I personally think that Elephants are a stunning, beautiful animal that were unfortunately hunted terribly for "sport", but there still is pre ban Ivory around, so I agree to utilise it, I was talking about this the other day with a South African friend of mine, and he was telling me about the over population of the Elephants, and how they had to cull them, its a terrible picture to imagine, apparently the ivory is destroyed after the cull.
I can see why, because of the past abuse of the Ivory...but under controlled methods? Is it because they dont want to start off the Ivory fascination again...I dont know, but at the end of the day, it does have a sad taint to it.
 
Daniel Dorn said:
:confused:Being somewhat of an environmentalist/naturalist, I have a hard time dealing with my desire for natural materials. It's a struggle I sway back and forth on even on an hourly basis. Before starting reading this thread I would have said "No way!" to elephant Ivory, then after seeing some pics, and reading some posts, I've moved back to "Wow, this stuff is amazing!" And reading some more, I'm leaning back to a more conservative view. I think the only way I can be completely comfortable with the idea of ivory is to stick with Mammoth or Mastadon, and then the guilt is non-existant.

It's hard being a Republican Environmentalist, who loves the idea of the hunt, and is a tree-hugger to boot.:confused: Would that be a Conservationist?
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Frankly, I can't see the difference between using 100 year old Ivory, and 50,000 year old Ivory. The animal is dead, granted for different reasons, and we can weep over the tusk, or offer sacrifices to it, or thank it for being there, whatever you would choose. But you won't change its status of no longer being useful to its original owner/user. And you don't have to produce it from fossil fuels or trees (plastics, resins etc.), you just have to cut it, apply it and polish it.
Less energy wasted, and less pollution. I see it as a tribute to the big animal that grew it, and to the Big Guy/Girl "up there" who gave it to us!!:D

(Duncan, He/She is everywhere! I'm just in a few knifely places. And a couple of un-knifely ones! :rolleyes:)
 
I personally think we're culling the wrong animals ;)

I can use mammoth/mastadon with no ill feelings because they became extinct naturally...I can't bring myself to own any form of Elephant ivory because we have almost obliterated them because of a piece of white shiny stuff, I dont buy the "carbon footprint" stuff so I am very much for synthetics like micarta and g10, some of which have a creamy grain similar to old ivory. I hunt, but I hunt solely for food and I will take darn near everything...its kinda like in north America, we almost made buffalo extinct because we wanted furs but left the meat to rot in the sun.

That said, the ivory has been taken and instead of letting it go to waste needlessly I can appreciate its beauty...I just would never own it because I would resent myself, its a moral catch 22 I think (I love it but I hate it :p).
 
I wonder if a Mod is going to rule us out of order, but I just have to add a little more. Robert, I can appreciate your dilemma, but if the human race lasts long enough, it could see everything on earth turned into plastic. It is so tough, some of it, that it does not decay in a reasonable time. We are slowly, inexorably being inundated with it, and synthetic knife handles add to the load.
Give me biodegradable/natural materials every time, please.
 
I can totally see your point, and I think this has been a pretty good conversation hearing peoples views on certain materials in the "ivory" realm of things when it comes to this particular knife model...for some time I have actually wondered if others with their slip joints have moral reasoning behind whether they will or wont use certain materials (and I'm glad we are able to discuss it without the conversation breaking down due to emotion on the topic).

But if GEC offered this in white or ivory micarta, I would make that my first powderhorn/toothpick purchase because it does look fantastic.
 
Is there any such thing as a PC knife in the first place? Hats off to GEC for offering folks an opportunity to own a non custom Ivory scaled knife even if they are rather limited. Those who have a moral objection don't have to buy 'em.
 
I did not express an opinion when I gave the Ivory links. My opinion is that ivory is very nice looking to my eye. How it gets to my eye view is the rub. I have handled Bald Eagles, Whooping Cranes and a few other smaller 'endangered' creatures. That doesn't make anyone a great expert, but it does cause 'human emotions' especially if you think about the world around you. How in the big picture as human man we are punny creatures that live by our wits. I was one time intrigued by the tales of hunting 'Darkest' Africa. I could envision myself standing with a big bore double rifle as the enraged Bull came at me with death in his eyes. I have gotten over that, as I realize two things, One - the cost of shooting an elephant today is about like buying a nice new car. Two - I have seen some big dead creatures since then, a few I killed myself, and as I have aged there seems to be less blood in my eye and I am now not measured by what I have slayed. All that said.
Poor people in the country of elephants scrape around any way they can to make money, poaching is survival to them. If ivory without history was allowed to be sold the elephant would soon go the way of our American Bison. Same for rhino horn or any wildlife part with value , especially in a country where one horn or hide is worth to a poor man a years wage.

Elephant populations are high in some areas and with proper management tusks from legal hunting and non-man caused dead elephants should be used. But, likely some oriental carving or oil country knife hilt will out pay our traditional knife handle useage. I have one pre-ban ivory scaled knife. I used a old 45 colt grip panel to make it. If that charging Bull ever shows up here in the central U.S. maybe I would have a couple more. For now enjoy what little we can get, when we can get and be glad we are not poaching to live.

300Bucks
 
waynorth said:
The tusk that GEC is using was from an estate, and was "collected" before WWI. I used to own it.
I would never use modern ivory, nor would GEC. It is better as knife handles than as some trophy celebrating the killing of elephants. It was in fact a beautiful tusk, but I just couldn't mount it for display. On the other hand, I see it as no different than wearing leather shoes, to use it to handle a knife, given the elephant has gone to Elephant heaven almost 100 years ago.
The carbon footprint of that tusk is far, far less than modern plastic imitation handles, BTW!
And it does age nicely, albeit slowly.
Click to expand...

Hi Charlie -

When I found out that this was your Ivory - I put a feeler out so that I can buy a "bullet end" jack if GEC makes one in Ivory - I think that would be spectacular!

best

mqqn
 
I don't particularly like a Toothpick, but if GEC puts some nice ivory on other patterns i will definitely buy.
roland
 
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